> ~Pw32~  Random Hero wrote:

> When do you consider the "egg" a person? There's no way to assess it's neurological functions, nor to say it has any at that time. When your declared dead you have no neurological functions, and your heart stops beating ... so tell me something different that would consider you alive?

~ Cloud

we consider someone dead, when their potential to live is reduced to practically zero. if we progress through technology to the point where people can regularly be revived well past the point where they had no neurological functions and their heart stopped beating, we would consider them alive.  currently with our technology, the chances to bring someone back after their heart stops beating or they have no neurological functions is next to zero, so thats when we call someone dead. but a fetus's potential to become something we would all consider a living human individual doesnt start at his first heartbeats or neurological functions, but when its conceived.

i would use the same definition a scientist would use. something is alive when it meets most of the following criteria. "   1. Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, electrolyte concentration or sweating to reduce temperature.
   2. Organization: Being composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.
   3. Metabolism: Consumption of energy by converting chemicals and energy into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.
   4. Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of synthesis than catabolism. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter. The particular species begins to multiply and expand as the evolution continues to flourish.
   5. Adaptation: The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity as well as the composition of metabolized substances, and external factors present.
   6. Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism to external chemicals, to complex reactions involving all the senses of higher animals. A response is often expressed by motion, for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun (phototropism) and chemotaxis.
   7. Reproduction: The ability to produce new organisms. Reproduction can be the division of one cell to form two new cells. Usually the term is applied to the production of a new individual (either asexually, from a single parent organism, or sexually, from at least two differing parent organisms), although strictly speaking it also describes the production of new cells in the process of growth."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life

does the lump of cells meet most of this criteria? yep. its alive. but big deal, a toe nail is composed of living cells too.  well, then i look at DNA. a toe nail is a tiny part of a living being. the lump of cells that is an embryo or fetus is unique and is its own living being, seperate from the mother or the father. the DNA is also human. so you combine all this information we know and scientifically, its alive, it is an individual living being, and its human. all of those statements are scientifically sound at conception. all arguments that it is not one or more of those things are religious and have no place in government law unless the government is a religious state.

a scientist looking at a foreign animal wouldnt say because the one creature is inside of the other, it is not its own creature until it leaves the other creature. a scientist  would also not say that it has to something that further developed members of that species does inorder for it to be alive or a part of that species or seperate from its mother. it's not logical to do that with humans either. so arguments saying its not an alive human being because its not breathing or doesnt have a pulse or have neurological functions or isnt outside the mother's body, arent logical....

> Red_Rooster wrote:

> that source is a bit  outdated dont you think?

yep, not to mention the source says diet, and not obesity.... so that includes things like food poisoning and eating disorders such as anorexia.

> Justinian I wrote:

> Avo,

Obviously she's anorexic.

why is it obvious?

she's Japanese, just moved from Tokyo 6 months ago, do you see alot of fat Japanese women? Japanese people are on average alot skinnier then most people. they have different standards when it comes to skinny and fat. i'm pretty sure she's just unhappy with her legs, and is trying to solve it through swimming daily and yoga.... i dont think she's anorexic... from my experience with women, even if they're skinny they're always unhappy with at least 1 part of their body. thinking hey legs are too fat and by extension that she is too fat and needs to lose a little weight is perfectly normal.

if working to better yourself isnt good for your government, your government is not your government, its an obstacle for you to overcome.

i know a woman thats probably 5'7, is 85 lbs and thinks she's a fatty. i tell her she's not fat, but me being an american destroys my credibility when it comes to such matters.

> Zarf BeebleBrix wrote:

> That... would... be...

AWESOME!

there are no winners in war, you sick bastard

> ☭ Fokker wrote:

> > If you keep using Avogadro/Flint/BW tactics you will end up equally respected.

you mean the most respected posters on the forum? you left acouple people out though...

in MI, its right around the $2.00 mark. you can get for around $1.95 if you pay cash at some places.

> esa wrote:

> If GM goes bk Ford and Chrysler would pick up their market share.Two healthy car companies are better than 3 sick ones.

if GM goes bk, Ford and Chrysler's market is going to shrink more then it will grow from the loss of a major competitor.

> Justinian I wrote:

> Let Toyota run them out of business.

well, GM is gonna go bankrupt in December without Federal Aid; if GM goes bankrupt, this will be a full blown depression.

sounds like ways to get positive points if you ask me...