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Topic: Socialism to the rescue

Not content with Nationalising banks, Mortgage companies and Insurance Co's It looks like the Bush government could be about to Nationalise the Car industry too.

Ironically, the huge cash surpluses generated by the state controlled economy of China, moslty loaned to USA, contributed to the overspending which precipitated the current crisis.


"The fundamental cause of America's woes (and ours too) is that its consumers, businesses and government all borrowed too much in the good years, especially from China.

China's semi-nationalised, heavily state-controlled economy generated huge financial surpluses through its massive trade in manufactured goods with America. And those financial surpluses were recycled back to America in the form of loans, so that US consumers and businesses could buy even more from China's factories and workshops."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2008/11/forced_convergence_of_china_an.html

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Re: Socialism to the rescue

Ridiculous...it confuses federal revenues with the US money supply

And for that matter, since the US budget has been over a trillion dollars for over a decade, each year, the US govt has cycled thru $10 trillion dollars. If the Chinese only have "lent" ie bought US securities totalling $1 trillion they are a small part of US federal rwevenue.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: Socialism to the rescue

lol..can we really expect GM to learn their lesson?

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Re: Socialism to the rescue

Let Toyota run them out of business.

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5 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 12-Nov-2008 23:35:46)

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Re: Socialism to the rescue

typical big Government; regulates company until they can no longer be profitable, then denies help until they do exactly what government wants them to do, while government blames business for themselves no longer being profitable.

oh, we're just going to pass laws that will cost you over a hundred billion dollars during a economic recession, and we'll give you $25 billion sometime in the future. oh, what? you're going to go bankrupt in December? Damn, incompetent GM, no, we wont give you any of the $700 billion we're giving to the corrupt banks...

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Re: Socialism to the rescue

> Justinian I wrote:

> Let Toyota run them out of business.

well, GM is gonna go bankrupt in December without Federal Aid; if GM goes bankrupt, this will be a full blown depression.

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7 Reply by Phoenix Mailer (edited by Phoenix Mailer 13-Nov-2008 00:04:18)

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Re: Socialism to the rescue

Have your ever heard of Karl Marx Capital ? and have you ever heard of main dilemma of capitalism ?

Let me explain it to you in terms you shoud understand - every enterprise exists to function at profit, it means it will pay to its workers less than it will be selling the fruits of their work. It means workers get only a fraction of the value of what they produced and it means they will not be able to buy all the goods they produced. So in order for the economy to function one has to stimulate demand with extra money. That's were banks come into play but the problem is one cannot stimulate demand by ever increasing debt for ever - there is a limit to how much debt one can bear and it seems we have reached that point...

the solution to the dilemma is to destroy the savings by debasing the currency (running printing presses and destroying the value of the dollar).

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Re: Socialism to the rescue

But then Henry Ford showed how workers can be so efficient they can produce enough units to not ony satisfy the basic working family with a Model T car, but with very little expenditure in labor and materials, sell a much costlier--and therfore profitable-- Packard or oldsmobile.  The diffrence between a Rolls Royce and a Jeep aint the labor, whatever Rolls advertises.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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9 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 13-Nov-2008 02:01:26)

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Re: Socialism to the rescue

> Phoenix Mailer wrote:

> Have your ever heard of Karl Marx Capital ? and have you ever heard of main dilemma of capitalism ?

Let me explain it to you in terms you shoud understand - every enterprise exists to function at profit, it means it will pay to its workers less than it will be selling the fruits of their work. It means workers get only a fraction of the value of what they produced and it means they will not be able to buy all the goods they produced. So in order for the economy to function one has to stimulate demand with extra money. That's were banks come into play but the problem is one cannot stimulate demand by ever increasing debt for ever - there is a limit to how much debt one can bear and it seems we have reached that point...

the solution to the dilemma is to destroy the savings by debasing the currency (running printing presses and destroying the value of the dollar).

that doesnt make any sense. yes, enterprise exists to make a profit. workers do get a fraction of the value of what they produced, but you're ignoring the owners. the owners are consumers too. and profit doesnt magically disappear. profit is speant just like the rest of the money, even when owners horde their money by keeping it in banks, banks lend the money to others that will be spending the money.

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  • esa
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Re: Socialism to the rescue

If GM goes bk Ford and Chrysler would pick up their market share.Two healthy car companies are better than 3 sick ones.

The inmates are running the asylum

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Re: Socialism to the rescue

Agreed......

First, they need to go bankrupt, chapter 13.
Then Break the damn UAW....that they were supposed to do this last contract.

THEN......we can finally build a car to embrace.

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
Individual patriot, and a REAGAN Conservative.

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Re: Socialism to the rescue

> esa wrote:

> If GM goes bk Ford and Chrysler would pick up their market share.Two healthy car companies are better than 3 sick ones.

if GM goes bk, Ford and Chrysler's market is going to shrink more then it will grow from the loss of a major competitor.

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Re: Socialism to the rescue

> Black_Wing wrote:

> Agreed......

First, they need to go bankrupt, chapter 13.
Then Break the damn UAW....that they were supposed to do this last contract.

THEN......we can finally build a car to embrace.


well, they did destroy the UAW. all these layoffs are them firing the old people and then hiring new people at much lower costs.

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Re: Socialism to the rescue

I like economist Marc Faber's idea...rather than bailing out GM with say another $50B (on top of the $25B they already got in Aug), the U.S would ultimately be better off giving that money to Toyota and tell them to takeover GM and take it off U.S taxpayers' hands.

Same with Ford and Chrysler, distribute funds to Honda and perhaps Mitsubishi to take those two over respectively.

As they are they are just a continuous drain to the U.S economy and will continue to be so until they're cut loose.

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Re: Socialism to the rescue

steal a page from Mitt Romney\s health insurance plan

mandate everybody lease an American car or be fined by the govt

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: Socialism to the rescue

I agree with most here...let gm go br if it has to. If it gets split up it only means more competition.

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Re: Socialism to the rescue

Greed is what does us in in the end

"The true office of a friend is to side with you when you are wrong; the world will side with you when you are right."
"It is not just a friend's help that helps us, but the knowledge that they will unconditionally do so."

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  • esa
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Re: Socialism to the rescue

How do you get a "banned" tag?

The inmates are running the asylum

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Re: Socialism to the rescue

...with an r instead of a d?

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Re: Socialism to the rescue

Ask a mod in #mod or email [email protected]. 

Don't use forum space for that or

Uh

Just dont

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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21 Reply by avogadro (edited by The Yell 15-Nov-2008 03:39:44)

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Re: Socialism to the rescue

> esa wrote:

> How do you get a "banned" tag?

[TOP SECRET]

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