4,226

(102 replies, posted in Politics)

Once again... dodging!


Xeno, would you please address me, in a straightforward fashion, about the following:

1: Elites can replace humans when possible, and can bribe humans when replacement isn't possible, which means oppression is inevitable because the elites don't have a dependence on masses.

2: The elites won't make the transition because, despite what may be best for society, it's in their interests to retain power.

3: Even if the elites cede power, another force could come into power to manipulate populations.

4: The elites have more weapons than simply brute force.  Economic, political, or cultural warfare can exact the same goals as military warfare, and give the same power.  Control of any important resource, spreading of a message, etc., can coopt your movement by fighting it tooth and nail.


There's only one argument you made that actually addresses anything: the oppressed can fight back the oppressor.

However...

1: The oppressed don't have the technology of the modern oppressor.  Fighters, nuclear weapons, etc.
2: Don't even think of using Iraq as an example of how the oppressed can fight the oppressor, because the US is showing restraint.  Once greater numbers, including their own population, becomes the enemy of the state, restraint for the purpose of protecting populations is meaningless since everyone is guilty.  If the government wanted to, they could pick any number of ways of taking down populations, including:
A: Direct warfare.
B: Control of food supplies or other key resources.  Can't endorse a post-modern, harmonious society when you're all starving!
C: Isolating regions, which prevents organized movements.
D: Screw it... just nuke em!  Technology allows us to replace humans with machines when possible.


Oh, and you also said that this was all natural, not a "movement."  Irrelevant.  Society fights natural movements, transitions, or whatever the hell you want to call it.  They're called "laws."


Edit: One more thing: possible contradiction.
Either 1) Society operates under the standards you lay out today, in which case it means the following:
A: The current system is the society you like,
B: Whatever powers exist today effectively facilitate your system, and
C: Means that the military-industrial complex, oil companies, or whatever force lurks behind politics is either:
a: non-existent, because it hasn't been erased, or
b: incapable of being removed because of my reasons above, meaning your transition is impossible, as I said above.

Or...
2) Society doesn't operate under the standards you lay out today, in which case it proves elites can fight off transitions, as it hasn't happened despite all these technological advances.  Internet, television, etc.


Please, go through these one by one and answer them, as, from what I see, you seem to be dodging my responses.

4,227

(41 replies, posted in Politics)

You are SOOOOOOOOOOO behind the times!  This started to happen months ago.  tongue

4,228

(102 replies, posted in Politics)

You still didn't answer the question.


How is the oppressor going to say "screw it, I'm done with this" and stop oppression?  As long as an oppressor exists, your means can be erased, your weapons blunted, your words twisted, and thus your vision desecrated.

As for "rejection of oppression by the masses..." this isn't 1500.  It would be one thing when a government's greatest weapon was a crossbow, but when an authority can control a population using only a select task force, you're coopted.  Some possible tools of cooption: Nuclear superiority (Possible government could have about 10,000 people who are all awesomely paid ensuring that we don't nuke the world... which will only happen if they stay in power), cultural warfare (screw you, we control the airwaves and cultural trends!  Hippies go home!), simple task forces, economic dependence (We control food production.  Sit down and eat your rice), etc.  Simply put, you assume only one of four resources in the distribution of power: labor.  The other three resources allow for the government to replace labor.  (Don't even get me started on the possible future of artificial intelligence, in which case you're totally screwed)

Whether it be by a Tianamen Square, or cultural rejection, you've already been coopted.

Hell, my previos two posts are proof that you're coopted: As long as ass holes like me think your movement is doomed... your movement is doomed because I'll still retain the power-based mindset of the past, allowing me to exploit you.

Just as it only takes one person to start a movement, it only takes one person to douse gasoline on the movement.  smile

4,229

(37 replies, posted in Politics)

Hell no!  Trying to top us!  U S A!  U S A!


I'll show you!  Cheeseburgers and twinkies!  How do you like that for a balanced diet???

Come on, Americans!  We can't let them take our gold award from us!

4,230

(26 replies, posted in Politics)

Yeah!  Back to the oldschool filibuster!  Bring out the cookbooks and phone books!!  big_smile

4,231

(79 replies, posted in Politics)

> [Pw9]~KT~ wrote:

> A woman's choice to kill a baby. Now doesn't that sound just precious. If you don't want the baby there are thousands of others who do or is it just too much of an inconvience in her life to not kill it?

Find the movie Silent Scream and watch as they suck apart a baby, ripping its limbs off because it was an inconvience.

The doctor that did that removal never did another abortion after that.




Holy shit!  Did KT just post in Politics?

4,232

(102 replies, posted in Politics)

> xeno syndicated wrote:

> "Fort 500 Companies are founded by Prior Military, and more so Prior Marines."

And how are these companies set up?  Like military dictatorships.  Face it, the militarist's mentality, with a complete lack of responsibility to the general population rules our current age. 

They care only about profits, and not furthering the quality of human life.

In all wars in human history, it was the civilian population who suffered the most, with far more deaths due to land mines or disease, malnutrition, 'collateral' casualties, etc., and yet again and again the civilian population always continues to support and uphold the militarists' movement, despite it having been proven by history countless of times its tyrannical dominance of systems of government, corporations, education, etc..

WHY?

Since 10,000 years ago, by the evolutionary selection process, those humans who submitted to the authority of the pyramid social structure were more reproductively successful than those who did not, either by being enslaved or executed for their critical viewpoints, or because they lived a hunter-gatherer lifestyle away from 'civilized' society.  Thus, the majority of humans today have a biological propensity to uncritically conform to what falsely seems to be a rigid and unchanging stratification of society, despite the obvious fact of their victimization by those at the top of the pyramid system.





Assume that everything you say is right.

Okay, now what?

Any rejection of the system would require rejection by all people in the system (including the exploiters).  Otherwise, the exploiter would simply outcompete you by going back to their old tricks.  Game over for your movement.

4,233

(180 replies, posted in Politics)

> Firewing wrote:

> "Continue to build our Military, and support the oppressed." rofl, how idealistic and generous. so the US will invade the Repulic of Congo in 4 years and end the civil war there? remember Somalia and Clinton?
"Remove the UN from the UNITED STATES, and withdraw our seat." BW, u are not a politican. NEVER give up ground in global politics. block everything if you like, but never give up ground!


Just wanted to point something out:

X possibly solves Y.  Removing the US from the UN means the US military isn't bound by the UN whenever they initiate peacekeeping operations.  Somalia was a UN intervention, complete with the UN rules of engagement.

4,234

(79 replies, posted in Politics)

> Norskefaen wrote:

> i think ppl pretty much agree here..

abortion is not something we applaud or like, but we all admit its a neccesity.


Have you been reading the thread?

4,235

(180 replies, posted in Politics)

> lmperial wrote:

> Hes Black, of course he will commit a Felony, the man's a communist, he will prolly get caught funding domestic terrorism.


Wow...

1: Welcome back, Decimus!
2: Yes... a Presidential candidate funding domestic terrorism...

Even if we agree that Obama will fund domestic terrorism...

Hell, let's go full out.  Let's say that a terrorist attack was foiled and Obama was arrested on the scene of the thwarted attack, being the person actually committing the attack.  They've got DNA evidence, fingerprints on the bomb fragments, and two video camera shots of Obama: one with him driving a bomb-filled ice cream truck into a building and one with him waving to a security camera as he sets a timer.

Who prosecutes him?  Not the courts.  The Senate prosecutes him.  That means that a majority of Democrats in the Senate would have to turn against their president.


Which means you're left with the following problem.  Either:

A: The Dems are, on the whole, leftist communists, and they would sympathize with Obama...
B: The Dems won't throw their candidate under the bus anyway because he's a symbol of the party... spin tactics!
C: The Dems on the whole aren't communists, in which case Obama would be applied with that, and your scenario wouldn't take place...
D: We can't generalize people, so your scenario is invalid...
E: Race is the deciding factor that says Obama will get impeached, in which case... well... I would make a comment, but my comment would probably end up being more racial than yours.  Let's just say that race being the factor that says "Obama will commit a felony" is freaking racist...

4,236

(79 replies, posted in Politics)

Go arseface!  *applause*

4,237

(8 replies, posted in General)

That's so awesome!

4,238

(180 replies, posted in Politics)

> lmperial wrote:

> I personally feel like Obama is gonna [snafu], get impeached, and set Blacks back in Politics decades, the head of the Executive branch might be black, but Washington is still a White Man's world, and one person in an Executive Office won't change that, or will it?


You need to commit a felony to get impeached.  Do you really think that would happen, especially since he's sitting with a Democrat majority in Congress?

4,239

(180 replies, posted in Politics)

> Gladiator wrote:

> and for the record i agree with zarf 100% big_smile


AAAAAAAH!  Now my stance must be wrong!

Excuse me while I reevaluate my position and create a new belief that includes liberal use of tactical nukes.  tongue

4,240

(180 replies, posted in Politics)

> Black_Wing wrote:

> Obama will hold hands and sing along with what ever [Removed because I'm not disputing it] AchmaDingDong [Removed because I'm not disputing it] want
Jimmy Carter Politics in action....come on now, lets all get along...
McCain would NEVER do that.


I just want to contest this one:

Look, oil prices are at around $63 bucks today.  By subsidizing food and gas imports and not spending jack on real economic investment, Ahmadinejad screwed up the Iranian economy by pretty much assuming high oil prices would be around forever.  Now that prices are low, the people have grown accustomed to food and gas subsidies, yet the government can't pay for them.  This would normally only mean that Iran would have to borrow money to pay its debts, but (surprise) they can't because the world issued sanctions.


Pretty simple: Now we have the upper hand on Iran.  If Ahmadinejad doesn't go internationally to request sanctions removed (which would require him to negotiate away his nuke program), he'll have to cut spending, which means either military cuts (solving the terrorism and nuke problems) or civilian cuts (which would piss off the people more than when he tried to ration gas last year... definitely makes popular overthrow a possibility).


Surrender to Iran?  Iran would beat Obama to the punch of surrendering.  smile

Frankly, I think it's possible we could see Iran turn much more soft while Bush is still in office.  It really all depends on how significant oil prices move around.

4,241

(79 replies, posted in Politics)

> avogadro wrote:

> well, either the fetus has the right to life or it doesnt. if it doesnt, the court as no place regulating such a thing and if it does, the court place has no place allowing a termination unless its an immediate threat to the mother's life.


That's only if you look at abortion from a question of ethics, rather than consequences.

4,242

(79 replies, posted in Politics)

I support abortion only for Justinian.  smile

4,243

(3,254 replies, posted in General)

Lies!

Matt?

4,244

(180 replies, posted in Politics)

> Black_Wing wrote:

> Two Homosexuals cannot pro-create....therefor its IMPOSSIBLE for them to be married.


If science was able to change that while retaining each person's gender, would your opinion change?

4,245

(31 replies, posted in Politics)

> Han wrote:

> When the population is actively hiding figters its called a resistance.
Nobody should be in a foreign country fighting a resistance.



People can hide fighters with Nazi ideals just as easily as they can hide people trying to achieve free democracy.

4,246

(9,083 replies, posted in General)

Just committed an epic failure in spelling

4,247

(58 replies, posted in Politics)

Who won, then?

4,248

(3,254 replies, posted in General)

No!

Fudge?

4,249

(81 replies, posted in Politics)

> ☭ Fokker wrote:

> What's cute is that you all seem to have forgotten that American forces have a habit of losing at asymetrical war. Does anyone remember the WW2 sub vs top-of-the-line US Navy Sub wargame? You should, several people on this forum took great pleasure in slapping certain Americans in the face with the results: The WW2 sub won.




I've heard of making movies based on true stories... but...


They made a true story based on "Dow Periscope?"  AWESOME!  big_smile big_smile big_smile

4,250

(3,254 replies, posted in General)

Lies!


Undeath?