Topic: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

Taken from an article in The Metro (uk).

"Off Your Face
  Drunks are aggressive and more likely to get into fights because alcohol reduces their ability to judge people's expressions, a study has shown. Alcoholics - even recovering ones - have decreased activation in the part of the brain that reads faces, meaning they often misunderstand others in emotionally charged situation. Excessive alcohol consumption irreversibly damages the temporal lobes and, as a result, alcoholics are left with 'a wide array of behavioural problems, including disinhibition and disregard for social norms', said experts in California."


  I imagine that my first reaction to this article was much the same as most other peoples reaction, one best summed up with the phrase 'Well, duh!'. Then I thought about it for a little while (about twenty minutes) and my opinion did not change, but I did come up with a great question:
 
  This study was done by experts in what field?

  You see, I have difficulty imagining a real scientist daring to waste funding trying to answer a question that anyone who has ever imbibed alcohol, and anyone who has not, could answer. Here, watch:

  Why are drunk people aggressive, stupid, and incapable of differentiating between accidental eye contact and a proposal of marriage? Because they are drunk!

  Now where is MY funding, where are MY column inches, where is MY reward for telling people what they have known for all of the ten thousand years that have passed since beer was invented? Oh yes, of course, I do not get anything because I am not an expert.
  "Experts"... pah!

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."

2 (edited by avogadro 13-Aug-2009 18:07:11)

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

"You see, I have difficulty imagining a real scientist daring to waste funding trying to answer a question that anyone who has ever imbibed alcohol, and anyone who has not, could answer. Here, watch:

  Why are drunk people aggressive, stupid, and incapable of differentiating between accidental eye contact and a proposal of marriage? Because they are drunk!"

the study was looking at the longterm effects of drinking, not how people act while drunk " Excessive alcohol consumption irreversibly damages the temporal lobes and, as a result, alcoholics are left with 'a wide array of behavioural problems, including disinhibition and disregard for social norms', said experts in California."

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

faces shmaces

its cause we think we're invulnerable.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

Scienctists these days specialise in thousands of different fields, stephen hawking has proved and expanded upon theories of relativity, thermodynamics and quantum mechanics. The practical applications of thermodynamics to pick one i am more familiar with, are vast and are even present in making your cars more energy efficient.

And as avogadro said, the study is longterm and looks at effects of alcohol abuse on the specific sections of the brain controlling things like inhibitions, which is probably of more importance the you or i realise.

One last thing is that electricity and cars were not invented at the snap of your fingers, they take decades to both invent and understand enough to be able to apply.

"Ed's a bit of a trouble maker, in other words, he's an asshole" - Archangel 2007

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

You've all totally missed the point. The aim of the research wasn't "Does alcohol make people aggressive?" it was "exactly what was the effect of alcohol on the function of part of the brain".

It just so happened that the answer was that there is decreased activation in the part of the brain which helps people recognise or read facial expression.

It is then hypothesised that this may be a cause of people being more likely to get into fights etc by sloppy Metro newspaper reporting by some reporter somewhere who probably doesn't understand the press agency report which in turn was filed by someone who has no knowledge of neuroscience who merely skim read all the abstracts in that particular issue of whatever journal it was from.

It is potentially incredibly helpful to science and to mankind if the effects of chemicals on brain or other organ functions was fully known and particularly if some progress to understand the mechanisms of those effects could be deduced.

Good science and junk reporting do not go well together. Neither do junk reporting and thoughtless reading.

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

As for Deci, you are completely and entirely wrong.

The majority of science always has been about blue sky thinking, right from the word go. Do you think Pythagoras really cared about the applications of his theorem? If he cared about practicality, why would he have famously spent so long worry about irrational numbers? It just so happened that one of his completely theoretical jaunts of fancy managed to yield an incredibly useful property of a triangle. As another example, Michael Faraday is an incredibly famous physicist and a pioneer of electromagnetism. The then British Prime Minister William Gladstone asked him "What is the purpose of electricity" to which Faraday replied "well sir, one day you may be able to put a tax on it". i.e. nobody knew what the applications of electricity were when it was first investigated. Yet it is one of the things you claim that scientists used to do that was useful.

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

To a lighter degree i have to agree with Deci...


I'm actually suprised though -- that global warming wasn't somehow thrown into the mix.

Morbo: Morbo can't understand his teleprompter. He forgot how you say that letter that looks like a man with a hat.
Linda: It's a 't'. It goes "tuh".
Morbo: Hello, little man. I will destroy you!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpP7b2lUxVE

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

"Excessive alcohol consumption irreversibly damages the temporal lobes"

That seems pretty huge to me.

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ ☭ Fokker

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

google it smile

till the end of time..

10 (edited by ed teh monkeh 14-Aug-2009 11:34:32)

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

Morbo the Annihilator

To a lighter degree i have to agree with Deci...


I'm actually suprised though -- that global warming wasn't somehow thrown into the mix.



i dont understand how u got from one to the other here?

"Ed's a bit of a trouble maker, in other words, he's an asshole" - Archangel 2007

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

The two points aren't linked...

Morbo: Morbo can't understand his teleprompter. He forgot how you say that letter that looks like a man with a hat.
Linda: It's a 't'. It goes "tuh".
Morbo: Hello, little man. I will destroy you!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpP7b2lUxVE

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

they are when drunks beat up Al Gore

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

Who needs a brain anyway...

Yay beer!

This forum is stupid.

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

> Simon wrote:
> "Excessive alcohol consumption irreversibly damages the temporal lobes"
That seems pretty huge to me. <

You did not know this already? Did anyone else on this forum, other than me, already know that alcohol irreversibly damages your brain?

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

"You did not know this already? Did anyone else on this forum, other than me, already know that alcohol irreversibly damages your brain?"

everyone knows this, but it is how that is of interest i belive.

also, morbo, if u r suggesting global warming because it is a term thrown about very often without proper understanding then u r using it correctly, because global warming was ongoing before man had invented fuel sources, before man in fact, there is a clear pattern that we have as a global society had an averse effect on the earth's atmosphere but there is a natural cycle, it just so happens that we r towards a peak of one of those cycles atm.

And esa scientists rnt always the inventors, they prove theories that allow the engineers to invent things. Also i would like to point out that engineers r scientists, except for civil engineering which has little to do with the type of science we r talking about anyway.

"Ed's a bit of a trouble maker, in other words, he's an asshole" - Archangel 2007

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

"...but it is how that is of interest i belive."

Well, first you drink a pint of Dutch Lager...

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

"You did not know this already? Did anyone else on this forum, other than me, already know that alcohol irreversibly damages your brain?"

What part of the brain?

"Well, first you drink a pint of Dutch Lager..."

That's ridiculous. That's like saying people from 500 years ago said garbage turn into flies.

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ &#9773; Fokker

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

Temporal lobes.

How is it ridiculous? Alcohol = Magical liquid that erases bad memories e.g. how you came to be in bed with the fat goth.

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

Because it doesn't explain anything. It doesn't tell me why the lobes shrank.

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ &#9773; Fokker

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

My guess: Something to do with alcohol being a deadly poison? I think that's why it ruins the liver.

Oh, and the garbage-flies thing was actually "rotting meat spawns maggots"... way back when they didn't know that flies lay eggs, apparently. hmm

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

"My guess: Something to do with alcohol being a deadly poison? I think that's why it ruins the liver."

Yes, but it still doesn't tell me much. The best a doctor can do with that information is tell a patient to stop drinking alcohol.

The body is just a bunch of chemicals reacting. If I look at two temporal lobes, one is normal and one is smaller, and I hypothesize that the difference is caused by alcohol, then alcohol must interfere with the normal chemical/protein balance. Which protein(s) and which chemical(s)? In what concentrations? Fixing these imbalances is very important in medicine.

Know the details can allow the drug discovery process and a doctor can then prescribe Fokkerine to a patient to prevent the formation of protein A, which prevents the formation of protein B, .....which prevent the formation of protein ZZ, which keeps alkaloid Conficker in low enough concentrations so that it slows the destruction of your temporal lobe cells.

"way back when they didn't know that flies lay eggs, apparently."

One way we prevent flies from spreading is by putting our perishables in plastic bags and tying it up so flies can't get in to lay those eggs.

If this post isn't coherent don't bash plz. It's 6AM and I'm tired..very tired >.>

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ &#9773; Fokker

22 (edited by Undeath 26-Sep-2009 18:58:53)

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

> Simon wrote:
> "My guess: Something to do with alcohol being a deadly poison? I think that's why it ruins the liver."
Yes, but it still doesn't tell me much. The best a doctor can do with that information is tell a patient to stop drinking alcohol.<

Yeah... and why are you asking me, I'm not a doctor?
All I need to know is that alcohol makes you stupid, it has been doing that to me since I was 16, and "experts" have just discovered this? [Jump off a bridge]! Experts my arse.

I don''t mean to be rude, but this whole thing just reaks of stupid. I don't know how, and I don't need to know, because I don't drink now tongue


>The body is just a bunch of chemicals reacting. If I look at two temporal lobes, one is normal and one is smaller, and I hypothesize that the difference is caused by alcohol, then alcohol must interfere with the normal chemical/protein balance. Which protein(s) and which chemical(s)? In what concentrations? Fixing these imbalances is very important in medicine.<

Or you could simply be looking at the brain of someone who is not a practised liar: Pathalogical liars have a lot more white matter than "normal" folks.


>Know the details can allow the drug discovery process and a doctor can then prescribe Fokkerine to a patient to prevent the formation of protein A, which prevents the formation of protein B, .....which prevent the formation of protein ZZ, which keeps alkaloid Conficker in low enough concentrations so that it slows the destruction of your temporal lobe cells.<

Sure... or the piss-head could grow a big boy spine and learn how to make it through the day without getting pissed?


>"way back when they didn't know that flies lay eggs, apparently."
One way we prevent flies from spreading is by putting our perishables in plastic bags and tying it up so flies can't get in to lay those eggs.<

I just eat them first, saves money. wink

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6132718/Men-lose-their-minds-speaking-to-pretty-women.html

The inmates are running the asylum

24 (edited by Zaige 04-Sep-2009 13:56:22)

Re: Experts Discover Answer We Already Knew

It not only damages your brain but also other organs in your body.
Alcohol is poison to your body, your body has trouble getting that stuff out of your system

Poison is bad

Ofcourse many people act like it doesn't care them because they wanna be part of the ''i dont care about alcohol, it makes me happy Yippiee!'' fan club
They wanna show others around them that they are tough and drinking alcohol makes you look ''cool''

I've been drunk once, it didn't felt nice, i didn't feel happy either, i felt weak. and if something we're to happen now i could not help myself or others.


Im not drinking any Alcohol anymore, for the reasons that its bad for the sport im doing, most alcohol drinks i dont like, it cost alot of money and it makes me feel weak and the knowledge that it is poison to my body.
I like to stay in controle.