Re: My Political Position and views

The short of it is we supplied:

50% of the explosives
46ish% of their ammunition
66% of the trucks Russia used
15% of the aircraft
20% of the tanks


This is not insignificant, especially when most of the time the stuff could have been used by English and American forces elsewhere.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
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Re: My Political Position and views

Also another major point:

Much of the metal to make the Russian Tanks and Aircraft was from America.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: My Political Position and views

I found a 7%!

"The American and British shipments most notably in the Northern Arctic route resulted in the loss of 58 ships and damage to many others. That was just over 7% of all ships that sailed to Russia."

So I see that it was indeed helpful, but it wasn't the be-all-and-end-all.

"By the end of 1945, over 57,000 T-34s had been built: 34,780 original T-34 tanks in 1940

Gondor: wtf, im not even mentioned. I was the glue to this family. Thats BS!
Econ: Gondor, if you were the glue, then I was the glue sticky thing that applies the glue.
(edit: I believe that's called the brush).
Torqez: Econ you forgot the part where you say "and I made Torqez delete!"

Re: My Political Position and views

Total tanks delivered came to approx. 11,000 and 8,000 other AFV's. Soviet total production numbered approx. 98,000 for all AFV's.

So this means we supplied 20% of their tanks and 20% of their armored vehicles.



The factor I consider most important is that we delivered early, we delivered fast, we delivered quantity.

Towards the end of the war the shipments were slowing for our push into Normandy. Without our assistance Russia would not have had the ammunition to defend Stalingrad, nor would they have kept Moscow.

Symbolism is important, losing the capital and the city so fought for, so symbolic for having Stalins name on it would have been a mortal blow imo. This would have also given Germany the soldiers which ultimately surrendered at Stalingrad, as well as linked up two great armies that could have then gone where they wanted into Russia.

Germany would have also had 100% security over the oil of the region, which would have dramatically altered the war, I mean DRAMATICALLY!!!!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: My Political Position and views

"The factor I consider most important is that we delivered early, we delivered fast, we delivered quantity."

yup.


"Germany would have also had 100% security over the oil of the region,
which would have dramatically altered the war, I mean DRAMATICALLY!!!!"

yup. But to what extent, who really knows.

O/T though...

Gondor: wtf, im not even mentioned. I was the glue to this family. Thats BS!
Econ: Gondor, if you were the glue, then I was the glue sticky thing that applies the glue.
(edit: I believe that's called the brush).
Torqez: Econ you forgot the part where you say "and I made Torqez delete!"

Re: My Political Position and views

So as you can see sir, I do know history, and I do stand by my politics

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: My Political Position and views

> Einstein wrote:

> So as you can see sir, I do know history, and I do stand by my politics

I never said you didn't know history. And I hardly thinks this proves anything about politics. I was quite content knowing that I had learnt something, was grateful for it, and I had no reason to go back into the name-calling or "discussion".

But then going and telling me that this proves that you should stand by your politics and policies (assuming you mean all of them) just shows how deluded you are.

Gondor: wtf, im not even mentioned. I was the glue to this family. Thats BS!
Econ: Gondor, if you were the glue, then I was the glue sticky thing that applies the glue.
(edit: I believe that's called the brush).
Torqez: Econ you forgot the part where you say "and I made Torqez delete!"

Re: My Political Position and views

Sir was not an insult, it was an honorific.


One must know history, or be doomed to repeat it.


Socialism has never suceeded throughout history on a national scale.

Capitalism has thrived throughout history.


Enough said.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: My Political Position and views

You_Fool: "so should we also teach ancient roman and greek mythology as a viable history of the earth?"

Agreed. If Creationism is to be taught in a /science/ class room alongside theories like abiogenesis and evolution, then so, too, should the creation myths of non-Biblical origin. I always liked the Boshongo creation myth from the African Bantu peoples. Stephen Hawking has told of this myth, speaking of how the god Bumba "vomited" the sun, moon, stars, and all the animals found in Africa (or at least, the ones that would have been encountered by the Bantu tribe and their ancestors).

Caution Wake Turbulence

35 (edited by Econamatrix 21-Mar-2009 00:54:18)

Re: My Political Position and views

>Socialism has never suceeded throughout history on a national scale.

>Capitalism has thrived throughout history.

>Enough said

Your thoughts site on the outer edge of capitalisim.  There is middle ground. What has thrived? Should no bailouts be done at all so those companies would go under, as they should do under pure capitalisim. Would those people with no jobs then be thriving?

>Agreed. If Creationism is to be taught in a /science/ class room alongside theories like abiogenesis and evolution

Your definition of "theory" is incorrect. Creationisim is supernatural. The Evolution Theory is natural. "Theory" is defined as:

"Definitions of  theory on the Web:

    * a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of ...
    * hypothesis: a tentative insight into the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"; "he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was ...
    * a belief that can guide behavior; "the architect has a theory that more is less"; "they killed him on the theory that dead men tell no tales""

You choose to say that the second definition is being used, when in fact it is the first, and possibly even the third. If only every Christian was aware of this, half of their argument would be removed overnight.

Gondor: wtf, im not even mentioned. I was the glue to this family. Thats BS!
Econ: Gondor, if you were the glue, then I was the glue sticky thing that applies the glue.
(edit: I believe that's called the brush).
Torqez: Econ you forgot the part where you say "and I made Torqez delete!"

Re: My Political Position and views

I am sorry, I have seen proof there is a God, I will not have you dissuade me. Nor will a significant majority in the United States nay say that there is a God.

Your views are in the MINORITY in the nation, and in the world.


Besides creationism is NOT religion teachings.

Creationism says we are created by something else, that the odds of our existence, and the existence of all life on Earth is not even a possibility without such creation. Therefore we are created, but to what aim, what purpose, why even is left out.

Yet you are so anti-religion you cannot even understand we are even leaving the door open for aliens to have created us.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: My Political Position and views

lol flint has now lost it..

as soon as you mention the well known fact that religion and science are two completely different things, one is the search of truth and the other is ancient tales of supernatural phenomenas...

LORD HELP OREGON

Re: My Political Position and views

> Einstein wrote:

> I am sorry, I have seen proof there is a God, .

hahahha, unless he came out of the sky and said "g'day" then you are delusional.


>Your views are in the MINORITY in the nation,

In your nation, yes, and this is truely disturbing.

>Besides creationism is NOT religion teachings.

What is it then? Scientific teachings? Maybe it could be called philosophical, but that would also be inappropriate, as in philosophy you base your thoughts and observations on the world around you. Religion ignores observations from the world around around us, and instead supplies us with plenty of "God acts in mysterious ways"

Gondor: wtf, im not even mentioned. I was the glue to this family. Thats BS!
Econ: Gondor, if you were the glue, then I was the glue sticky thing that applies the glue.
(edit: I believe that's called the brush).
Torqez: Econ you forgot the part where you say "and I made Torqez delete!"

Re: My Political Position and views

You ignore observations around you, and history which has been dug up and proven correct from teachings. But I will not discuss religion further here, make a thread if you dare.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

40 (edited by Acolyte 21-Mar-2009 05:10:31)

Re: My Political Position and views

@Economatrix

You are quick to jump to conclusions. Nowhere did I imply that /scientific theories/ should be, or indeed are, somehow contradictory with religious beliefs. Whether you implied this or not, I don't care: the distinction is still a necessary one to make. Science and religion are not mutually exclusive, however creationism is not a /theory/ in the strict scientific sense of the word; ergo, it has no place in a science class curriculum. This was my initial point. Moreover, Biblical creationists in particular tend to purport their theories as having scientific basis. This was another point I was attempting to dismiss. If Biblical creationism deserves serious discussion in a science class, then so, too, do the creation myths of other cultures and religions which are just as valid as claiming God created the Earth as literally described in the Book of Genesis.

Your layman Google definitions are fine, but they are wholly inadequate and the second definition you supplied has nothing whatever to do with what I said. Nowhere did I ever imply creation *myths* -- of any sort -- are scientific theories; they do not even rate as a hypothesis. You, apparently, are unaware of what a hypothesis even is, or are suffering from a severe misunderstanding of what I intended to convey. Feel free to try again when you are slightly more educated in the matter.

Caution Wake Turbulence

Re: My Political Position and views

Oh and as a side bar to my credentials.

In 1992 I worked in my first political campaign for 5 days as a volunteer for a politician who was running for local office.

My family was shocked beyond belief when they found I was helping a Republican, and *gasp* a anti-abortion one at that.

It has take 16 years but I have finally done it, I did not know until tonight on phone with my mother. The last of my family, excepting an aunt I never cared for and the two remaining drug addicts of the extended family (an aunt and an uncle) have converted to becoming Republicans.


Now why do I hoot my own horn here?

My Grandma and the one deceased Grandpa of my family were chosen as electoral votes forWalter Mondales for the State of Oregon should he win it. My family was the strongest of Democrat families in Oregon, with a strong backing for liberal policies.

My first successful conversion was my mom, then my sister, then other members of the family.

My mom is now a gun toting conservative who is as good as they can get in conservatism.

My grandma was last to change, she was scared of Obama in the election and finally saw the truth of her history of voting, she has converted.



To those who will honestly listen I will not give extra hyperbole, nor will I slap you every chance I can get. I will lay my views down for you to see, and convince you on the majority of what I have selected as being correct. Yes the majority, only a few here would even try to say all but one or two issues, if that.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

42 (edited by ☭ Fokker 21-Mar-2009 13:38:31)

Re: My Political Position and views

Don't listen to me, the public have no right to know.


Were you honest about your health when you were asking for votes?
Did the people that voted for you know about you health?
Would they have voted for you had they known the truth?

Like it or not, the following questions are valid questions to be asking of someone in your position, Michael.

  1) Do you have a mental illness.
  2) Do you accept treatment for this illness.
  3) Does this mean we can trust your decision making and judgement?
  4) Does this mean you should hold the position you hold?
  5) Why should we fuel your delusion?
  6) Why should we play your game?

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."

Re: My Political Position and views

When I ran I was clear of depression, besides it is an unpaid position, and I only solicited 3 votes, all people who knew me. 90 something people voted for me tongue


As for the rest, your just a troll. Go away troll

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: My Political Position and views

I lold tongue

Stop! Hammertime!

Re: My Political Position and views

Your parents probably just agreed so you'd shut up and eat your meal.

NEE NAW NEE NAW

Primo

Re: My Political Position and views

Mental health problems such as depression are incredibly common and it is very short sighted of you Fokker to make any mention of them. Many people suffer from conditions such as depression and many people also make full recoveries. Someone's previous problems may not in any way hinder them or affect their thought or decision making processes.

That was a low blow and was full of ignorance about mental health issues

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

Re: My Political Position and views

Is it really necessary to start a post to tell every that your a bigot- minded conservative with a seemingly psycho- social addiction whereby you need to tell everyone how they should live their life?

People are different than you. People think differently than you. People act differently than you. People believe differently than you.

Suck it up and stop acting like a 2 year old whose parents just had their 2nd child, and now you need to fill the lack of attention. If I want to go having anal sex with other men, why is it of your concern? If I want to marry another man, why is it of your concern? If your allies chose not to partake in a war that had little creditably evidence as a "Just War", what right does your president have to pout and cry foul? You and the rest of the neo-cons fueling white house policy need to learn that America is not the centre of the world, and that the average person in most foreign countries don't like some TV preacher bitching to the president trying to persuade him to base his foreign policy in accordance with "god's will".

"In a world of global deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell

Re: My Political Position and views

> Einstein wrote:
> When I ran I was clear of depression, besides it is an unpaid position, and I only solicited 3 votes, all people who knew me. 90 something people voted for me tongue
As for the rest, your just a troll. Go away troll <

  Are you afraid of my valid questions? Or do you think the public do not have a right to know? I have to ask because some of the more important questions have gone noicably unanswered.


> Sitting Duck wrote:
Mental health problems such as depression are incredibly common <

Really? It's a good job you pointed that out to me otherwise I'd have never figured that out during my weekly visits to the shrink.

> and it is very short sighted of you Fokker to make any mention of them. <

Because telling Flint to go and get some real help rather than just chanting "I'm better now, I'm better now" whilst surfing for survival on the tsunami of the mania that will inevitable lead to an almighty (and if previous experience is anything to go by, very public) crash is so short sighted so ast to be legally blind?

> Many people suffer from conditions such as depression and many people also make full recoveries. <

  And all of these people do this WITH PROFFESSIONAL HELP, not by self deceit and happy thoughts.

> Someone's previous problems may not in any way hinder them or affect their thought or decision making processes. <

  Not telling me anything I don't already know. About Flint. About you, on the other hand, this say a great deal. You are, at time of writing, unaware that I am a medicated mental patient, aren't you? And you are also unaware of Flint's very public admission of his mental health problems (not solely deprerssion, but bi-polar disorder, and then some) and his very public admission that he is refusing all treatments and therapies because he thinks he knows better than the doctors, who are quacks...
  ...To be honest I think he's right about the quak part; If I had made such refusals I'd have awoken one morning to find my room filled with police officers armed with CS Spray and doctors armed with... um... whatever that white shit in the needle is... I think it's Valium. hmm

> That was a low blow and was full of ignorance about mental health issues <

  Hmm... I could be a gentleman and let this slide, after all, you didn't know... But...

http://tiny.cc/qWh4u

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."

Re: My Political Position and views

It is true that US role in WWII has been exaggerated - at least in the 50 years that followed it. This is quite normal seeing the fact that there was a Cold War, in case anyone forgot about it.

Concerning the aid to Russia in this case, you have to take into account the fact that the bulk of it was sent after the turning point of Stalingrad - and did not play such a role either in the decisive Kursk battle, the soviets being the biggest producers of tanks in WWII, although I guess part of the production chain was perhaps already using US ressources by the summer of 43. We have to remember that there was a serious threat that Stalin could go and deal a separate peace with Hitler, which would then have significantly changed the war. In that aspect, US aid was also meant as a way to keep them going and be in a better position at the moment of "who gets what", to cite "Patton" big_smile

All that said, I think anybody who denies that the US still had a central role in winning WWII has a serious problem with History, and is confusing anti-american feelings with the more honorable idea of getting the facts straight.

By the way, the line "Japan had several WMD programs in ACTION with delivery due in the United States" made my day.

That is a perfect example of what "bad revisionism" can do. Next thing you know, japanese will be refered to as "terrorists" in the next edition of US history books. The modern acronym gives the thing a totally different light. By the way, when citing this kind of stuff, it would be nice to add that the subs plan was cancelled by the Japanese Navy because it would have launched a war "against humanity".

Re: My Political Position and views

Excuse me, those subs were not cancelled. They were surrendered as part of the Japanese Surrender.

They US was so impressed with them that we sunk them rather than let the Russians know what these subs looked like (per a treaty).

You are already showing your ignorant and a victim of revisionism. These projects were underway, Japan had used bio weapons prior to this attack, and planned to do them again.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)