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http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2510816194
that's for Rice, the facebook group I was talking about. The person who was mostly active in it left because he felt a lack of reason and understanding prevented others from having a, um, how did he put it? a reasonable, logical and good debate
> Translucent Night wrote:
> I dont understand the first part...about ignoring people lol....sorry <
Right... so you don't understand the concept of not talking to people you don't want to talk to, for whatever reason? (I don't mean to sound snotty)
> My goal isnt to drag out a debate with you. It's to answer honest questions and proclaim the gospel <
Honest questions? Is there such a thing as a dishonest question? Does it sound like "Hey, do you have a girlfriend?" but really means "Hey, can I rape you?".... must be my turn to be apparently dumb.
__________
Some answers as I see them:
"1. Why did Adam and Eve sin in the first place, where they not perfect?"
No. Adam was man v1.0, and nobody get's it right the first time, and Eve was woman v2.0, the first version being Lillith, made of mud and slime, who was effectively shunned from eden after refusing to submit to Adam, from whom god made Eve.
Biblically speaking Eve is Man v1.5.
Professionally speaking, only an idiot or an arrogant fool assumes that their v1.0 prototype is perfect.
"2. Another question is of Jesus. We humans were born with sin and the punishment is to stay forever in hell. Jesus took our place for us on the cross but He was only in hell or Hades for three days, not forever. Wouldn't Jesus have to stay forever in hell to fully atone our sins?"
Yes, but the dominion of god is not a democracy. See: Nepotism.
"3. If God were all knowing, he would see that many people would be going to hell. Why did he create man just to send most of them to hell?"
Because God is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end of everthing, the source of all good and evil?
"5. How can we be sure God isn't just playing with us? [...]"
We can't, which is something no true Christian can deny.
"7. Why aren
>>It stands. If you create something, it is obvious, and you leave a part of you in it. Think about humans Rice. Humans are created in God's image, therefore, because we are made in God's image, we are separate from the rest of creation (more to come on this have to go)<<
No because you then hold it proved God is limited and defined by His creation. If I build a clay piggy, and it can't dance, or falls over and hurts people, you can't demonstrate -I- can't dance or -I- condone evil, as proved through my creation.
>>Regarding Jesus: Which part of his "We are all children of God?" speech makes people think he was declaring himself to be the literal son of God?<<
what speech is that? I'm more familiar with the angel proclaiming it to the Virgin Mary, and Elizabeth knowing it when she met the pregnant Mary, and a dove coming out of the sky and saying "Behold My Son, in Whom I am well pleased" and the miracles, and saying "I am, who am" in the synagogue, and asking Peter who he is and Peter saying "You are the Messiah" and he told Peter to save it, and being on the mountain with Moses and Elijah, and the devil in possession of the beggar saying he was the Son of God and then getting thrown into a herd of swine, and even the pagan Roman saying after seeing the whole Crucifixion saying "Truly this man was the son of God", and then the bit where He came back from the dead, and Ascended, and Simon seeing him at the right hand of God as he was stoned, and, and, and...
is Lutheran an ethnicity in Finland or something?
no, lutheran is a denomination
Lisstos....if you wish to discuss come on msn and chat with me
fokker u are also free to do so 
hey Chris
please add me, i'd love to chat wtih you
dunno how to do that... I'm at [email protected] but I'm not at the PC mroe than 4 hrs a week.. I'm at work now 
> Chris_Balsz wrote:
> >>Regarding Jesus: Which part of his "We are all children of God?" speech makes people think he was declaring himself to be the literal son of God?<<
what speech is that? <
"I am the son of God, we are all children of God"
> I'm more familiar with the angel proclaiming it to the Virgin Mary, and Elizabeth knowing it when she met the pregnant Mary, and a dove coming out of the sky and saying "Behold My Son, in Whom I am well pleased" and the miracles, and saying "I am, who am" in the synagogue, and asking Peter who he is and Peter saying "You are the Messiah" and he told Peter to save it, and being on the mountain with Moses and Elijah, and the devil in possession of the beggar saying he was the Son of God and then getting thrown into a herd of swine, and even the pagan Roman saying after seeing the whole Crucifixion saying "Truly this man was the son of God", and then the bit where He came back from the dead, and Ascended, and Simon seeing him at the right hand of God as he was stoned, and, and, and... <
...and, and, and Jesus himself spoke of none of this, this is all according to others, others who wanted- no, needed Jesus to be more than a man, for whatever reason.
Look at it this way; Would Christianity be where it is today if 2000 years ago man was simply asked to accept good advice from a carpenter who thought too much?
__________
> Translucent Night wrote:
> [...] Lisstos....if you wish to discuss come on msn and chat with me
fokker u are also free to do so <
Dude, are you "special" or something? Remember this?:
> ☭ Fokker wrote:
> Why do you have an aversion to having discussions here? Is this thread not the right place?
You need to realise that some of us can't use messenger. <
> Deci wrote:
> "After all, God breathed the breath of life into humans."
no he didn't.
your mom sure as hell didn't
> Chris_Balsz wrote:
> >>It stands. If you create something, it is obvious, and you leave a part of you in it. Think about humans Rice. Humans are created in God's image, therefore, because we are made in God's image, we are separate from the rest of creation (more to come on this have to go)<<
No because you then hold it proved God is limited and defined by His creation. If I build a clay piggy, and it can't dance, or falls over and hurts people, you can't demonstrate -I- can't dance or -I- condone evil, as proved through my creation.
Just because you create something doesn't mean it limits you or defines you. On the contrary, your creation is an example of your creativity and your power. If you can create a human being from the dust of the earth and give it life or raise the dead, well f*** me running. Otherwise, The_Yell ;p shaddap The power to give life in the universe, life created from nothing, represents a great and distinct power that is unique to a being not of our time or of our space.
And as for clay piggy, if can't dance, w/e, means you can't give it life after creating it from the dust of the earth; and falling over and hurting someone is not evil, just bad luck. Your actions once your creation has done something defines who and what you are, not your actions in creating the creation. God created the earth and everything in it telling us it was good. Now that's out of the way, the earth fell because of one man's decision to not heed God, well call the cows home and spank my dog, here i thought i was a part of God and allowed to make my own decisions. God gave Adam advice, Adam didn't listen, the earth paid for it and etc. my brain is a bit gone atm as I'm writing an essay so blah ;p
>>...and, and, and Jesus himself spoke of none of this, this is all according to others, others who wanted- no, needed Jesus to be more than a man, for whatever reason.<<
Maybe my post was too long to read through? Jesus did say "I am who Am" in the synagogue, he did chastise Peter and the demon for acknowledging him as the Messiah too early.
>>Look at it this way; Would Christianity be where it is today if 2000 years ago man was simply asked to accept good advice from a carpenter who thought too much?<<
it wouldn't have lasted 50 years which was the point Nicodemus made in Sanhedrin advocating against repression
and St. Paul made in his Letters: if it was a fraud how long would people take torture to proclaim it?
eck i wish to post when when i get the chance after midterms XD
> Chris_Balsz wrote:
> Maybe my post was too long to read through? Jesus did say "I am who Am" in the synagogue, he did chastise Peter and the demon for acknowledging him as the Messiah too early. <
Oh no, I read it through, and my questions still stands. Jesus was trying to tell you something, it is a shame you would rather listen to the words put in his mouth than the words that came out.
"I am the son of God, we are all children of God"
> it wouldn't have lasted 50 years [...] <
So the only way I can be certain of my lessons having a real, and lasting, effect on the world is if I convince people I am a product of the divine, or perform some kind of miracle?
> [...] if it was a fraud how long would people take torture to proclaim it? <
You'd be amazed at the things people will do under torture, like develop Iron Will Syndrome. Don't know what the correct name for that is.
"So the only way I can be certain of my lessons having a real, and lasting, effect on the world is if I convince people I am a product of the divine, or perform some kind of miracle?"
No. It's to BE Divine. As for pumping out miracles...I guess you COULD, since we're warned false prophets might do so...
Doctors pump out miracles
> Chris_Balsz wrote:
> No. It's to BE Divine. <
Humans are doomed.
> As for pumping out miracles...I guess you COULD, since we're warned false prophets might do so... <
False prophets? Hmm. Would the healers on God Christian Channel count?
"Only I-ah, have the pow-ah, to save-ah, your soul-ah! Join-ah, join with me and sing-ah, sing the lord praise-ah!"
Erm... which lord?
There are at least eight insurmountable problems within the extant evidence that each independently refute the Christian doctrine of a divine Jesus:
1, Jesus' endorsement of the murderous immorality of Yahweh in the Torah
2, Jesus' doctrine of "eternal punishment" in the "eternal fire" of Hell
3, Jesus' failure to claim actual divinity
4, Jesus' failed prophecy of his imminent return
5, Jesus' failure to competently reveal his doctrines (concerning e.g. salvation, hell, divorce, circumcision, and diet) in his own written account or that of an eyewitness
6, Jesus' failure to perform miracles the accounts of which cannot be so easily explained as faith-healing, misinterpretation, exaggeration, and embellishment
7, Jesus' failure to attract significant notice (much less endorsement) in the only detailed contemporaneous history of first-century Palestine
8, Jesus' failure to recruit :
a) Anyone from his family
b) Any acquaintance from before his baptism
c) A majority of Palestinian Jews
d) Even some of those who heard his words and witnessed his alleged miracles.
....Ad Majorem Sathanas Gloriam
>>1, Jesus' endorsement of the murderous immorality of Yahweh in the Torah<<
Based on what? Your subjective mores?
>>2, Jesus' doctrine of "eternal punishment" in the "eternal fire" of Hell<<
What is a "successful" doctrine? One year less a day?
>>3, Jesus' failure to claim actual divinity<<
He does several times.
>>4, Jesus' failed prophecy of his imminent return<<
Where?
>>5, Jesus' failure to competently reveal his doctrines (concerning e.g. salvation, hell, divorce, circumcision, and diet) in his own written account or that of an eyewitness<<
By "competent" I take you mean on pleading paper, properly captioned, in the form of an affadavit, dated and signed, witnessed, and notarized?
>>6, Jesus' failure to perform miracles the accounts of which cannot be so easily explained as faith-healing, misinterpretation, exaggeration, and embellishment <<
You would explain away miracles as faith-healing? "Oh that's no miracle, that's just psychosomatic spotaneous regeneration!"
>>7, Jesus' failure to attract significant notice (much less endorsement) in the only detailed contemporaneous history of first-century Palestine<<
Are you in the AAA guide?
How can you claim to exist then?
>>8, Jesus' failure to recruit :
a) Anyone from his family<<
His Mother.
>>b) Any acquaintance from before his baptism<<
His "cousins", and his "brothers and sisters"
>>c) A majority of Palestinian Jews
d) Even some of those who heard his words and witnessed his alleged miracles.<<
This is discussed in the Gospels. If you don't know what Jesus said then you really aren't debating "Jesus" but "somebody else's God". It is like condemning Galileo without reading Galileo, but, arguing what you imagine somebody in Galileo's shoes shoulda oughta have said, and then being mad Galileo didn't say your speech.
>>2, Jesus' doctrine of "eternal punishment" in the "eternal fire" of Hell<<
What is a "successful" doctrine? One year less a day?
did Jesus even have "doctrines"?
>>6, Jesus' failure to perform miracles the accounts of which cannot be so easily explained as faith-healing, misinterpretation, exaggeration, and embellishment <<
You would explain away miracles as faith-healing? "Oh that's no miracle, that's just psychosomatic spotaneous regeneration!"
I like your response, but you misspelled spontaneous and I'm going to have to dock you 3 points, sir
Hello again my brethren! I come with good news. President Barack Obama has stated that he will be sending more troops to Afghanistan! May we take a second to breath, virtually lock arms and pray for even more troops to go to the Middle East to protect the black liquid of freedom and peace and bring it back to our shor.................... I mean, cleanse the devil and spread democracy! Huzzah! Praise the laaaewwwwwdahhhhh!
http://www.goodmanfielder.com.au/Images/Brands/dsv-praise.jpg the Lord!!! (im a balsamic dressing fan myself.)
(Sorry everybody, I missed the 1 year anniversary of this thread, and the forums going down. Late celebrations? Whos with me? Ideas?)
Edit: next post will be a new page omg?!??!
BTW Galileo was not punished for saying the Earth was not the center of the universe.
He was punished for being a jerk about it.
He wrote a book with a fake dialectic argument which is like doing a MAD magazine sendup and the target was certain clergy, like:
GALILEO: So you see that cannot be true, even if we wanted it to be.
ASININUS: Yes, I cannot argue the point.
And then he pretended they couldn't prove that he did it.
So certain Italians wanted him burned, in compromise they made him live in a nice apartment. They really didn't give a damn about epicycles so much as stomping out smartasses. The Curia was the original Forum Nazis!
/me humps beaners
come back to me my precious!!! 
join me in capri and we will have lots of male sex orgies with our family!!! (provided I have a VIP spot)
btw, I TOTALLY had to say that in this thread knowing what this thread suggests
well, as tempting as lots of male sex orgies is, I think I might keep my anal region exclusive to my poop. If you know what I mean.
(you know, the brown stuff that you put in the toilet)
how you been beaners? long time no see
some 1 1/2-2 years or so
(come to think of it, I miss Ulti too)
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