Topic: Nap payments

If naps are ever necessary again we should have a feature where we can just post a list of planets that automatically will be traded to tge selected player/players of the nap.

We should also have a feature where when making a nap say instead of taking all of a familys planets like we normally do there should be a transfer resources option to apposing familys in a nap so they could say pay me 100m gc for a perm nap without illegally or legally lol doing it  through the market

~Cells~

Re: Nap payments

adding features to encourage paying (or asking people to pay) for NAPs?

no.

3 (edited by KingWiLd 03-May-2017 11:02:23)

Re: Nap payments

Yeah, seems most small fams prefer being crushed rather than making a fair payment. Several times last round and this, fams have chosen to fight instead of napping my fam for a fair amount of expoed planets as payment for a NAP. Most of these instances were times when i knew my family had the clear upper hand.. My NAP offer is an option to pay my fam in expoed planets instead of my fams continuing of raids in which they generally end up losing lots of infra planets, which then can lead to deletion. It's unfair for smaller fams to think and/or assume that larger fams should just leave them alone and let them off free. It is a conflict game after all, and even in losing (or especially in losing), lessons can be learned. But no need for these little fams to automatically think surrender and paying of planets for a nap is the end of the world. The end of the world is usually what happens when they deny said offer tongue. It's best to recognize defeat, rather than denying the obvious.

Naps give fams an opportunity to rebuild and grow again after a defeat. It gives you another chance to still compete in the round. It used to be a lot bigger part to this game. But it's laughable to think people are going to want to NAP much with the current way naps done. There are no ingame signatures or features that hold them to making payments. If we do what Cells suggests, people would be a lot more comfortable discussing and signing NAPs, especially if they know that through ingame features they will receive exactly what was agreed upon.


I think it is a good idea. It will remove any chances of people trying to cheat fams out of agreed upon terms.

The Young Wolf

Re: Nap payments

missin wrote:

adding features to encourage paying (or asking people to pay) for NAPs?
no.

I read this, then was completely and utterly confused by how people can be so much against payments for NAPs.
It's like a lion asking a prey for food instead of eating the prey, and the prey saying: NO I WILL NOT GIVE YOU FOOD...
The lion will just go: "ok suit yourself, you had a fair option of living, but now you die"

But then KingWild said it already smile

KingWiLd wrote:

Yeah, seems most noobs and small fams prefer being crushed rather than making a fair payment. I think it is a good idea though. It will remove any chances of people trying to cheat fams out of agreed upon terms.


I agree, would be a good addition to the game CELLS smile

Re: Nap payments

Fight. Don't pay for naps

"What is there to look forward to in life?"
Death thought about it for a minute and finally said,
"Cats. Cats are Nice" - Terry Pratchitt

Re: Nap payments

My problem is paying for NAP's is an "old school" approach. If we want so bad for things to be as in the old days, then what's wrong asking for payment?  It happened all the time early on. Not saying it should be automatic, but to act like it's a disgrace is sad to me.

Re: Nap payments

Paying for NAPs is fine, but this "mass list exchange" or whatever we want to call it seems wayyyy too easy to exploit.

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: Nap payments

I dislike planet-demands for NAPs but that's my personal choice; there's no reason to expect everybody to feel (or play) the same way.

Given that some players will do this anyway, it's worth at least considering ways to make it smoother.

CELLS wrote:

we should have a feature where we can just post a list of planets that automatically will be traded to tge selected player/players of the nap.

This sounds like an extension of the "peaceful takeover" idea that was originally about trading planets between friendly empires.  I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work for NAP deals either.

CELLS wrote:

there should be a transfer resources option to apposing familys in a nap so they could say pay me 100m gc for a perm nap without illegally or legally lol doing it  through the market

Similar to above: I can see this being useful generally.  We'd definitely need to consider exploits but there's nothing we can't do without a little forethought and testing.

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Re: Nap payments

I like pie wrote:

I dislike planet-demands for NAPs but that's my personal choice;

I actually see it as a courtesy, a friendly gesture. The game is about having the most planets at the end of the round. Meaning that if the power difference is large enough, every family is a planet-farm.
Obviously, the stronger family is not going to hand out "keep your planets"-ticket for free. Instead of risking losing hundreds of planets, you play a bit less, can explore them where and when suits you, and you don't lose any infra.

Fighting might sounds tough and cool, but if the difference in means and strength is large enough, a planet payment for a NAP is really a very kind and reasonable option. It just requires a bit more pragmatic reasoning, and a bit less thinking in emotion and honor and stuff (though, if you look at it a bit more pragmatic, it is actually quite honorable too).

Re: Nap payments

It comes down to personal goals.  How a player or family achieves "having the most planets at the end" isn't always the same.  If it were only a numbers game, people would be turning on their family members to have the #1 size player rank at all costs.  Clearly, "war etiquette" exists to some degree, despite the size goal.

My own experience hasn't been about toughness or coolness, but rather that the game is far more interested and fun if conflict is embraced, including and especially situations where you know you're fighting a losing battle.  Personal rankings be damned, the real fun in this game is knowing that you're the reason a larger player and/or family lost the #1 spot. smile

Anyway, I've heard the "courtesy" argument before and while I'm sure it's true to an extent, there's a fine line between that and bullying people into submission.  Of course, that is also valid but it's up there with farming or noobie bashing in my opinion.

But then, it's a war game and all of that is perfectly reasonable.  It's just a matter of the type of player or family people choose to play as.

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11 (edited by missin 03-May-2017 22:50:50)

Re: Nap payments

a) if you're in a position that offering them a NAP for planets is 'doing them a favor' you probably shouldn't be farming them in the first place.  Get your planets from someone who is a challenge you cowards. (hint 1: skirmishing over spread is not farming) (hint 2: planets 5 ticks from their home system is not skirmishing over spread).

b) if you've already killed them in to submission and taken a ton of planets asking for more planets for a NAP is a scummy thing to do.  Which is usually what happens.

Re: Nap payments

My main idea behind it is me myself like many would rather die then hand off say 40-100 built planets for a nap. Thats basically suicide anyways.

So if we were able to pay resources and gold just like in real life instead of land that could increase many many things.

For one it will allow the family to rebuild and actually give that family a second smack like they deserve instead of waiting for that precise moment.

...now i wouldnt make it so you can always aid other familys do to i.a but in naps yes.

Use hold a good point it is a war game and why nap and not fight? Well obvious answer is sometimes a temporary nap is needed so the family can have a second shot at the tittle like they deserve instead of complete butt raping the first time through.


Wars are long and can all rely on rl schedule.  Some familys refuse to nap because they know they will get raped if there is a second war. Some familys are greedy and refuse to stop a war unless gained so much planets .this may give them a reason to.

I strongly believe this will help prevent dirty wars and maybe just maybe brinf back a tad ...and i mean just a tad of honor back into ic warfare

~Cells~

Re: Nap payments

CELLS wrote:

My main idea behind it is me myself like many would rather die then hand off say 40-100 built planets for a nap. Thats basically suicide anyways.

So if we were able to pay resources and gold just like in real life instead of land that could increase many many things.

For one it will allow the family to rebuild and actually give that family a second smack like they deserve instead of waiting for that precise moment.

...now i wouldnt make it so you can always aid other familys do to i.a but in naps yes.

Use hold a good point it is a war game and why nap and not fight? Well obvious answer is sometimes a temporary nap is needed so the family can have a second shot at the tittle like they deserve instead of complete butt raping the first time through.


Wars are long and can all rely on rl schedule.  Some familys refuse to nap because they know they will get raped if there is a second war. Some familys are greedy and refuse to stop a war unless gained so much planets .this may give them a reason to.

I strongly believe this will help prevent dirty wars and maybe just maybe brinf back a tad ...and i mean just a tad of honor back into ic warfare

What's an I.A?

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

14 (edited by Hala 04-May-2017 08:23:14)

Re: Nap payments

I like pie wrote:

Anyway, I've heard the "courtesy" argument before and while I'm sure it's true to an extent, there's a fine line between that and bullying people into submission.  Of course, that is also valid but it's up there with farming or noobie bashing in my opinion.

But then, it's a war game and all of that is perfectly reasonable.  It's just a matter of the type of player or family people choose to play as.

missin wrote:

a) if you're in a position that offering them a NAP for planets is 'doing them a favor' you probably shouldn't be farming them in the first place.  Get your planets from someone who is a challenge you cowards. (hint 1: skirmishing over spread is not farming) (hint 2: planets 5 ticks from their home system is not skirmishing over spread).

b) if you've already killed them in to submission and taken a ton of planets asking for more planets for a NAP is a scummy thing to do.  Which is usually what happens.

Seriously I have the feeling that this whole story is only being seen from the perspective that the winner is always the bad guy because they are taking planets from the poor small fam.
Why should the winning fam always offer a NAP? Bullying a fam into submission, say what? Even if the winning family stops attacking, 98/100 times the small family is so completely raging and angry that they will keep doing ops, doing attacks and silly stuff. Of course we keep taking planets if they keep showing aggresive behavior. Little assessment: we can take about 700 planets more, but hey, I'm not such an evil guy, I'll give you a PNAP for 50. "WHAT PLANETS FOR A NAP YOU BASTARD?! NEVEERRRR"
Please tell me where the logic is in that? That's just suicide like CELLS said.

To top that argument off, the messages people sometimes send you when the war starts, not even considering who will win it, really makes it very unlikely I'll ever offer them a NAP for free.

And another point has to be taken into account. If you have started that war with you biggest competitor for the win, you want to be very certain that you kick them down just enough that they can never overtake you when you sign that PNAP. It would really suck if you do the so called (by some of you) honorable thing and for some brainfart silly reason offer them a (P)NAP for free, and 2 weeks later they have farmed and infrawhored themselves to the #1 spot.
Another reason sometimes you want planets for that NAP, or just continue taking planets.

Re: Nap payments

Hala wrote:

I have the feeling that this whole story is only being seen from the perspective that the winner is always the bad guy because they are taking planets from the poor small fam.

The problem isn't a about taking planets on its own.  It's the concept of saying "just give them up I'll win anyway" followed up with "really, i'm doing you a favor".

It is absolutely a viable strategy, but again so is noobie bashing.  "So called honor" is only as silly as each player feels it is, as players can enjoy the game for different reasons.  Not everybody is in it for the win at all costs.

This isn't a bad thing by any means; it's what adds flavor to our experiences.  Family A can win #1 size by only fighting people near them in the ranks, and Family B can win #1 size the next round by only fighting smaller targets.  They both win #1 in their respective rounds but they will also both earn different reputations for their perceived skill or lack thereof.

Hala wrote:

Little assessment: we can take about 700 planets more, but hey, I'm not such an evil guy, I'll give you a PNAP for 50.

Part of it is long term strategy.  If I want to be known as a player who will roll over for a NAP then sure, taking such a deal might save me some hassle in the current round but I'll gain a rep as a pushover and future rounds will see me being an easier target.

However, If I want to be known as a player who will fight tooth and nail until the end, then other players will remember that as well.  Reputation has value, and it affects diplomacy in future rounds either way.

There's no right or wrong here.  It's simply a matter of preference.

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