• Posts: 2,791
  • Tag points: 185

Topic: Revised NAPs

In response to No naps at all by CELLS.

This is a tough one.  People are always going to make NAPs.  If they don't exist in-game they'll simply do it unofficially like they used to.  The real question is, "why?".  If a family wants to NAP the whole galaxy and focus on infra, that means infra has too much power to influence rank.

Sometimes NAPs have more legitimate reasons though.  The most obvious one being for ending a war.

I don't think they're such a bad thing, and could be improved if they acted as a means to provide a warning and penalty for violation instead of an outright restriction.

Imagine this message:

"You have a Non-Aggression Pact with your target's family.  Are you really sure you want to do this?"

And proceeding to disregard the agreement would auto-trigger the nap's cancellation for whatever time period it's signed for, and some kind of penalty would be incurred until the NAP is officially over.  Some penalty ideas:

Penalties for the entire family until the NAP is over:
* A clear, prominent message on the family's page that they have violated a NAP
* Morale penalty for all family members
* Morale bonus for attacks against the family, regardless of member

Penalties for the initial violating player until the NAP is over:
* A clear, prominent message on the player's page that they have violated a NAP
* Additional morale penalty specifically for this player (so they get penalized harsher than the rest of their fam)
* Additional morale bonus for attacks against the player (so they are a more attractive target than the rest of their fam)

And, a permanent penalty for both family and player: a history of their transgressions that is visible all round long.

In the case of a mistake, re-signing a new NAP would nullify penalties and resolve (not remove, but mark as annulled) violation history.  By re-signing a new NAP, the target family would be agreeing that yes, it was a mistake and everything is now fine between the families.

An important thing here is that although this change would actively discourage NAP breaks, it wouldn't outright disallow them.  There may even be situations where taking the penalties is worth the tactical advantage.  I think we should allow for this, as it more closely reflects actual warfare.

What do you guys think?

Got a few bucks?  The Imperial Tip Jar is accepting contributions!

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 282
  • Tag points: 12

Re: Revised NAPs

Striking a balance between too harsh and too lenient of a penalty would be incredibly difficult in my opinion. Either the punishment will be too harsh to ever be used except as a n00b trap or for rogue players to ruin their fam's round, or it will be too lenient to make the NAP not worth enough since it's only as good as the honor of the other fam. It's a good idea, and I'm not saying it couldn't work, but I don't want to play through 5 rounds of it being in a bad state before it gets tweaked to that right balance.

I think you're exactly on the right track with needing to discourage families from napping the entire galaxy. How to do that could be done many ways. I agree that it's rather annoying that basically every conflict ends with a NAP these days. Ceasefires are only implemented to work out the details of a NAP. The best solution to fixing the problem might be in the framework of the game rather than the structuring of the rules of NAPs.

I don't like the idea of discouraging "honor" since I believe the game fundamentally relies on this to be worth playing in its current state. The general shittiness and complaining that has gone on in this round recently is hard enough to deal with without allowing people to break NAPs.

But man is not made for defeat. A man can be destroyed but not defeated

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

3 Reply by CELLS (edited by CELLS 11-Oct-2016 01:10:42)

  • Posts: 1,337
  • Tag points: 21

Re: Revised NAPs

What if we added a cease fire option and make them offical. 24hr or 48hr cf or what ever length.  Basicaly a nap but after the time frame the cease fire is auto lifted and attacks can remain or peace can stay.

Gives families an option of peace without a nap and worrying of betrayal


I dont think making them unbreakable is a solution

~Cells~

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

4 Reply by DustyAladdin (edited by DustyAladdin 11-Oct-2016 03:02:18)

  • Posts: 282
  • Tag points: 12

Re: Revised NAPs

^I like the idea of adding ceasefires in game

But man is not made for defeat. A man can be destroyed but not defeated

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 2,791
  • Tag points: 185

Re: Revised NAPs

CF is an interesting idea.  What are your guys' thoughts on CFs replacing NAPs?

Got a few bucks?  The Imperial Tip Jar is accepting contributions!

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • LG
  • Player
  • Offline
  • Posts: 5,713
  • Tag points: 19

Re: Revised NAPs

I don't see why we can't have both. I don' think CF should have to end howevery say if there is 10ticks left and both leaders agree to 24 hrs more you should be able to go to 34 - or just go back to 24 if you need a standard 24/48/72 etc.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 2,791
  • Tag points: 185

Re: Revised NAPs

The idea of CF replacing NAPs would mean that a peace agreement could only ever be temporary, and could only ever come as a result of an existing war.

It would change the game such that people generally can't just have NAPs for the sake of having NAPs or to ensure safe econ growth, although unofficial NAPs could still be a thing of course.

Still, the entire galaxy would become generally more vulnerable than it is currently, which could shift focus away from infra and more into defensive strategy.

Got a few bucks?  The Imperial Tip Jar is accepting contributions!

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 1,337
  • Tag points: 21

Re: Revised NAPs

If cf option was to completely replace the nap feature we would need to be able to enter our own periods of time ot have actualy long sets of time to. We dont wnt to cause more issue.

The only issue i see of not having both os sometimes war gets a little personal and some people would love a chance on revenge. If you cf and another family hits you right away your last target can easily vulture right back in.

I think we would need both features for this to work

~Cells~

0 Dislike 0 Post Points

  • Posts: 131
  • Tag points: 6

Re: Revised NAPs

I like pie wrote:

In response to No naps at all by CELLS.

The real question is, "why?".  If a family wants to NAP the whole galaxy and focus on infra, that means infra has too much power to influence rank.

That's a good question and a good answere.
NAPs are done more than ever because there is usually too much space and thus it is more "efficient" to peacefully grow by colonization instead of warfare.

In a balanced map all planets should be colonized after about half the game length... to further grow it then needs even more overbuilding or the goood oldfashioned "by military means".

Conclusion:
1) Smaller maps and less planets.
2) Raise the cost for overbuilding.

Players will sort out the rest and will follow the "economic" incentive. Families with too many (informal) NAPs will get problems to grow competitively.

I like pie wrote:

Sometimes NAPs have more legitimate reasons though.  The most obvious one being for ending a war..

This, of course, is a very legit reason.

So there should be something like "ceasefire" or "peace" which can be only declared after a war.

War is defined as:
1) A formal declaration of war was made.
2) Some conditions were met in this war: a minimum time, a certain percentage of planets changed ownership (percentage of the number of planets the warfaring families owned at the start of the war) and/or a minimum of units killed.


If you want to steer warfare in IC towards more formal ways and to encourage team oriented battles/wars, then give the incentive by raising the advantages of a formally declared war: less morale, lower attack cost, wider range in which buildings are kept after conquest instead of razed etc.
But to be honest I am not sure wether IC is really in need to encourage team play. Probably much more needed is what somebody (perhaps you yourself, Pie) called "empowerment" of the individual player or what I'd call "playing the whole game and not only a single aspect/role for months and months" because that is sooo boring and depressing especially for new players.

Another old bloodstained Harkonnen.

0 Dislike 0 Post Points