Re: nuking

But they should still work

And in this gal with no morale it could be used to win the round with a banker nuked to next to nothing and the attackers with no market to sell on within a day the fam would have no cash to send fleets

Re: nuking

Since the formula is a simple probability algorithm, the closer your number attempts gets to infinity the closer the true 1/9 chance will show up.  So keep on plugging?

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: nuking

Your a discrace and in denial

Re: nuking

1.  I know how nukes work
2.  I know how probability works
3.  I had nukes successfully cast on my main buildings just last round

Maybe Bud is magic?

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: nuking

Also, I totally put in a request to double check that nothing is wrong, but I doubt anyone will have a chance to check it out before Christmas. 
My responses from work tend to be riddled with sarcasm, but I really do think these are just fluke instances tongue

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: nuking

Update:
Dev's haven't been able to check the formula yet, but we were able to set up a scenario on to test multiple nukes.  I'll try to post results, but forums don't like excel copy pastes.

     90 Nukes    45 Nukes

CF         11        6
HF         6             4
LA          8             3
LQ          5     3
MF         11     8
OC         11     7
RS          7     0
RC          18     9
TO          13     5


First column is after 90 nukes, second was after 45.  While in a perfect world column 1 would all =10, and column 2 would all =5... probability isn't perfect.  Everything's being hit, and if I had time to cast 900 nukes those numbers would be closer together.

Step 2 is we're going to set someone up with loads of about 90% cfs and less than 2% of all other buildings, and see if we get any wildly differing results.  This will either require a dev, or a few real time days for us to get the buildings up.

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: nuking

You need to test amount of agents the victim has to see if it affects it

Of you have 1mil agents test it vs somone with 200k and then vs 50k the. Vs zero to see any difference

Its not just the randomness of the nuke hits its that the agent defence has an effect on whats hit that needs testing

Re: nuking

Good to see this is being done if there is anything I can do to help let me know

BUD777 reporting for WAR

Re: nuking

thisyearsmostopen wrote:

You need to test amount of agents the victim has to see if it affects it

Of you have 1mil agents test it vs somone with 200k and then vs 50k the. Vs zero to see any difference

Its not just the randomness of the nuke hits its that the agent defence has an effect on whats hit that needs testing


We're waiting on Devs to check the formula to make sure there's no stray bit that would link these.  To accurately test if the randomness is the same for all those scenarios we would need to do at least a few thousand nukes in each scenario, which we don't have time for. 

Now that I've done a baseline random test, I'm 99% sure what's happening is that people are using nukes hoping to hit a specific building, and when they don't hit it they get upset. 

Once dev's check the formula to make sure it's a closed random algorithm, this is a closed case.

We're in talks again about developing a....more targeted nuking system, but with the system as is you guys need to remember that each nuke only has an 11% chance of hitting any given target tongue  Just like how it's completely possible to send 3000 bombers vs 200 lasers, and still get your fleet blown.

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: nuking

Update:  No evidence has been discovered to indicate that there's any problem with nukes.

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

36 (edited by Epiknicedude 05-Jan-2016 16:43:24)

Re: nuking

Instead of each building having 11% chance to be hit.. shouldn't the ammount of buildings you have from a type of building not influence the chance of hitting it?
If you break it down.. 1.8mill agents trying to nuke someones LQ's when there are no LQ's to be found.. sounds pretty dumb if you put it like that. Yet they come back with the news they successfully destroyed 30% of em...
Now i understand this would change nuking completely.. but it makes much more sense.. you could alter the % of buildings that got nuked to say 3 or 5% instead of 30%

Re: nuking

Undeath wrote:
Undeath wrote:

Again, I'm not saying that taking another look at nukes is necessarily a bad idea, it's just a convo I've had multiple times as mod, fmod, and player and what it tends to come down to is if you allow players the ability to select what building a nuke will hit, you have to increase the difficulty of the op to the point that it's almost impossible to cast to keep it balanced.  So throw some ideas out there.

What happened here is just unlikely, it's not a bug tongue


Same thing here (it's a 15% hit, not a 30% hit).  If it only targets buildings that players have, we'd have to significantly increase the difficulty.  The misconception here is that nukes are, ever have been, or were ever meant to be reliable.

Also, in regards to epik, I'm 90% sure I've had the convo with devs before and with the way the code works it would be difficult to have the op ping to check what buildings an individual before calculating what is hit, let alone set it so that it bases it's chances of hitting a building off the % of buildings an individual has.  Option A was doable, but any idiot could build 5 of everything on their hp and negate the change.  Option B would be extremely over-powered, and probably wasn't doable.

There have been preliminary talks about semi-targeted nukes, (3 different nukes each targeting 3 potential building types) but we'd have to figure out a way to balance the increased chance out.  Possibly something similar to destroy cash, and have it do 2-7% damage to whatever you hit instead of a flat 15%.

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: nuking

i agree with the first part, nukes shouldn't be reliable and should always have a chance of failing. But the way it works now is kinda outdated.
working with different kind of nukes and a smaller hit percentage seems fair to me if option B is not doable. Obviously option A doesn't work.
Would love to see this been put to the test

Re: nuking

We're no where near testing on this (we're at the hey...what if we do this stage) but I'll keep this posted.

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: nuking

Believe me nukes do fail even when i had all these agents 1 in 3 to begin with and later every other failed. So really you need to nuke someone 20 times with fails to hit what you want to hit once, in a gal with morale that is even more crazy.

Re: nuking

Nukes are one of the hardest ops to cast, so fails should be expected.

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: nuking

hardest to cast and hardest to hit what you want it to hit............

Re: nuking

potentially most devastating.....

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: nuking

and most frustrating

~Attacking is a Skill~
~Defending is an Art~

Re: nuking

Point is undeath.. We did so many nukes and not one of them hit his CF's
It's not about the failing.. it's not about the statistics you are showing us.. it's all about doing 50 nukes and not hitting the CF's one freaking time. It looks fishy and you should agree with that instead of saying there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.
Round was won by them anyway.. we just wanted to go out with a blast.. we just wanted to have a final shot at it and proving that being 10% of their NW we could still hurt them really bad.

Re: nuking

Epiknicedude wrote:

.. it's not about the statistics you are showing us.. it's all about doing 50 nukes and not hitting the CF's one freaking time. It looks fishy and you should agree with that instead of saying there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

It actually is about statistics. Doing 50 nukes in a row results  in 1.3% chance of not hitting  any cf. That  is high enough to actually happen on a regular basis.
I don't think we  should  keep  the current  Nuke system, though.

~Attacking is a Skill~
~Defending is an Art~

Re: nuking

Epiknicedude wrote:

Point is undeath.. We did so many nukes and not one of them hit his CF's
It's not about the failing.. it's not about the statistics you are showing us.. it's all about doing 50 nukes and not hitting the CF's one freaking time. It looks fishy and you should agree with that instead of saying there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.
Round was won by them anyway.. we just wanted to go out with a blast.. we just wanted to have a final shot at it and proving that being 10% of their NW we could still hurt them really bad.

As Lightguns says, it's exactly about the statistics I'm showing you tongue  I've tried multiple times to duplicate doing 50 nukes and not hitting cfs once, and haven't been able to do it under any circumstances.  Unfortunately you guys just had a run of bad luck, and that's all there is to it

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: nuking

LiGhTGuNs wrote:

It actually is about statistics. Doing 50 nukes in a row results  in 1.3% chance of not hitting  any cf. That  is high enough to actually happen on a regular basis.
I don't think we  should  keep  the current  Nuke system, though.

Again, we're looking into it, but the primary goal is going to be getting morale balanced out.

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: nuking

I have some questions/suggestions about how nuking is working right now.

1) Does number of agents affect what buildings get nuked?  I was under the assumption that its the same regardless of agents used as long as the nuke lands.  Therefore I try to use the minimum amount of agents to nuke as long as it succeeds so i don't lose as many agents do to random failures.  I think trying to figure out what is the minimum amount of agents required to nuke adds bit more depth to the game instead of sending max amount every time.

2) if it really takes 1000 nukes or 500 nukes to see an average of each building hit 11% of the time, there is already a problem with the current nuking system.  Unless you are nuking everyday for half the round, its impossible to reach that amount of nukes, not to mention the random failures and better uses of cash and morale.  Realistically you should get an average nuking trend closer to 30-50 nukes or earlier (which is already a couple days of nuking assuming morale cost is 5)

3) I can only speak for myself, but I like to play this game because it is a strategy game, not a game of chance.  Technically speaking, it would be possible for someone to only nuke only the main buildings (which i do think would make nukes a bit too strong).    I would suggest making nukes so that once it hits a specific building, there is less of a chance for that building to be hit again until all other buildings are hit or 24hrs is up.

Re: nuking

Suggestion as addition for the current nuking system. Instead of completely random, use the basket method (like done in Tetris to select blocks). Take a basket of 33 nukes. 3 for each type of building. The game randomly selects the nuke from the basket and than removes is from the basket. After 33 nukes you will have exactly hit each building 3 times and your basket will start over. In this system not hitting any CF after 30 nukes has a very low chance of 0.02% (30!/(33!/3!)) and you will know for sure you will hit that CF when the basket runs out of options.

Larger and smaller baskets are offcourse an option.

~Attacking is a Skill~
~Defending is an Art~