Re: Morale for Ops

Aeonflux wrote:

I think there should be a limit on how much a op costs you as big bankers / resources become bored when it costs nearly all there morale to do 1 op on someone, I understand why this morale formula was introduced but ATM it's making people get bored quicker resulting in them going in-active as there is nothing for them to do apart from send aid

I disagree!  Bankers and resourcers have plenty ability to do ops, it's just a different role than it was in the past.  Doing 1 cpff on a smallish attacker can cost 50-60 morale easy sure, but a big partax in sb is currently able to keep the pop down on 3 bankers.  It will take some time to adapt I'm sure, but this change has basically created some new roles while adjusting traditional roles.  A middle of the pack opper will be useful for things like cpffs and ips big_smile

Or if there's a way to adjust morale used for specific ops, making informational ops cost less would make sense as well.

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: Morale for Ops

then i will disagree as well.. i say its all unbalanced!

28 (edited by domi06 20-Aug-2015 17:56:15)

Re: Morale for Ops

It has certainly ended any chances at going SS or working in small teams. You need everyone in the fam to be on the same page working together. Basically everyone has to be more active and coordination in wars has to be spot on if you want to get anything done in a reasonable amount of time.

It will certainly take A LOT of adjustments.

Re: Morale for Ops

[PW9]~KT~ wrote:
Bandito wrote:

for 1 opps mostly lose 65% morale so its not working



Morale Cost: 70 for 1 opp


You know the cost before. If you are trying to op someone that requires that much morale you need to look for a bigger target.


The family was bigger than ours is.  Bankerdoing infiltrate on attacker should be expected without using 50% of morale on a single infiltrate

Everyone needs Hookers in their Family  !!!

Re: Morale for Ops

Hookers wrote:
[PW9]~KT~ wrote:
Bandito wrote:

for 1 opps mostly lose 65% morale so its not working



Morale Cost: 70 for 1 opp


You know the cost before. If you are trying to op someone that requires that much morale you need to look for a bigger target.


The family was bigger than ours is.  Bankerdoing infiltrate on attacker should be expected without using 50% of morale on a single infiltrate

Or we could all realize that with this new system traditional roles won't necessarily work well.

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: Morale for Ops

then make new race or races who will loose less morale for opping and more for attacking and vice versa ?

Re: Morale for Ops

What kind of stats would you suggest exceed?

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: Morale for Ops

It all sounds like you don't want to change the way you safely played this game, I say change nothing yet, let it sink in. Figure it out first, it's not as if they're long rounds now anyway.

Also, did I see an SS player in SB complaining? lol n00b.

~*✠ ]PW[ Forever ✠*~

34 (edited by exceed 21-Aug-2015 16:12:20)

Re: Morale for Ops

ok PW agreed that changes have to be made
played safely ? ok if thats how you look at it but still i think its unbalanced
definitly for SN there has to be changes, in my eyes the smaller you are in SN the better you will be at farming people..

Now SB mainly:
For the stats , i was thinking something like the magic bonus..
When you have 10% magic bonus your opps would cost 10% less morale and so on
Offcourse this would overpower a partax, maybe cap it at 50%
But isn't a partax meant to be a opping race anyway ?
Then you have attacking bonus, implement the same... 50% attacking bonus gives you 50% less morale loss

This would probably have to be tweaked untill a balanced formula is found, meaning with 50% less morale loss you would probably want to up the normal morale loss even more..

This way a partax who chooses this race for doing mostly opps will have its role only for opping, since he will loose lots of morale by attacking

A attacker with -10% magic will not perform much opps cause he will loose a significant amount of battle-morale, so he has to trust on his oppers (roleplaying!)

Or just give every race new  morale bonusses
Morale bonus: -30%
Morale bonus: -20%
Morale bonus: -10%
Morale bonus: 0%
Morale bonus: 10%
Morale bonus: 20%
Morale bonus: 30%
maybe up to 50%

greetings

Re: Morale for Ops

Exceed has a great race concept idea!

Might make it a little interesting for base market players who can play whole round ss....
Like with wardancer race and the warcry op/spell.

Gives a sudden boost and accepts limitless morale spent too attacks/ops made  but keeps the negative counting until op runs out. So like no fear (which gives an offensive and defensive boost. Maybe adapting warcry too incorporate more than just the wardancing race....
There are certain handicaps involved but when raiding a larger players empire makes sense...
I'd keep the morale limit too planet count ratio intact less severe...
So if a family that is only half the networth of another has the same planet count they could get farmed but it wouldn't become impossible. As that is traditionally cause and reaction of this game.

So families with larger networth could necessarily hold there own against smaller family with same number of planets. But in the end the morale limits would really be tested. Instead of two equal networth ranges forced to war one way b/c the other family has half the number of planets. That'd make things uninteresting and slightly unfair for the more prepared family.
Unless the juggernauts with all the planets didn't defend any of theirs...

One life to live in is all that a person needs. When traveling down a road looking for the ascension to greater things, all that really matters is the way you got to the end, when you reach your final destination did you help or hurt more?

Re: Morale for Ops

Undeath wrote:

Or if there's a way to adjust morale used for specific ops, making informational ops cost less would make sense as well.

This needs to be added if you insist on using morale for ops.  I still hate the idea, but whatever, if it's here to stay, at the very least scale the morale cost somehow on a utility score of the spell or operation.  I shouldn't be paying 10 morale to PI someone my same size.

Re: Morale for Ops

I just got estormed 15 ticks in one tick by somebody who is roughly 30% bigger than me in nw and planets. That is way too op

Re: Morale for Ops

Killas wrote:

I just got estormed 15 ticks in one tick by somebody who is roughly 30% bigger than me in nw and planets. That is way too op

Lol you mean 15 times in one tick

Make me think about that time when diego tried to sab on portal from halfway across map. Hypnosis too the max. I believe he had only 8k pop when I was finished. Plus he had 500k nw on me after I dropped his pop.... love this morale sys big_smile

One life to live in is all that a person needs. When traveling down a road looking for the ascension to greater things, all that really matters is the way you got to the end, when you reach your final destination did you help or hurt more?

Re: Morale for Ops

Killas wrote:

I just got estormed 15 ticks in one tick by somebody who is roughly 30% bigger than me in nw and planets. That is way too op


You should build more wizards.

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: Morale for Ops

Maybe a little more constraints on frequency of ops used. Based on op/spell is in order. As compared:
Using a cpff or pi. Vs. Using nuke or oct hurricane.
Maybe based on duration (length of effect) or impact on empire (devastation created) should monetize on how much morale is spent. So if the op destroyed portions of entire population or last eight ticks then it should cost more. Than an op that would just view an empires hq, or show the infra of a single planet, or sabotage a portal. Then should cost less then in comparison.

One life to live in is all that a person needs. When traveling down a road looking for the ascension to greater things, all that really matters is the way you got to the end, when you reach your final destination did you help or hurt more?

Re: Morale for Ops

1mAnaRmY wrote:

Maybe a little more constraints on frequency of ops used. Based on op/spell is in order. As compared:
Using a cpff or pi. Vs. Using nuke or oct hurricane.
Maybe based on duration (length of effect) or impact on empire (devastation created) should monetize on how much morale is spent. So if the op destroyed portions of entire population or last eight ticks then it should cost more. Than an op that would just view an empires hq, or show the infra of a single planet, or sabotage a portal. Then should cost less then in comparison.


http://imperialconflict.com/forum/viewt … 1#p1745651

Also to some extent aggressive ops are still constrained by their success rates.  If you're a pop banker, and someone is able to get off 15 estorms on you, you didn't have enough wizards built.....

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: Morale for Ops

give us the Morale loss formula so we can tweak it ourselfs...
and i do not believe in the ops formula neither so might make it public as well and let me see how it is possible to fail with 1,7mil against 300k and this when i'm the smallest in NW

Re: Morale for Ops

Well if you take into account magic bonus and how many built wizards each empire had that's understandable. It depends on wether you mean in sb or sn. As qezian I would play it all up but would have too try nine times at some point too do a pi or to cast sa. Mean build more!

One life to live in is all that a person needs. When traveling down a road looking for the ascension to greater things, all that really matters is the way you got to the end, when you reach your final destination did you help or hurt more?

Re: Morale for Ops

opps like infiltrate, pi, SA, etc dont need to cost morale..
i think opps that actually hurt someone, like estorms, nukes, sab portal, ff etc must cost morale..

A good friend will come bail you out of prison, but a true friend will be sitting there next you saying, "Damn, that was fun!"

Re: Morale for Ops

Snowy-san wrote:

opps like infiltrate, pi, SA, etc dont need to cost morale..
i think opps that actually hurt someone, like estorms, nukes, sab portal, ff etc must cost morale..


We're in the process of changing informational ops and self-ops to a minimal, consistent morale loss. Will be part of the changes/tweaks made live next reset.

<@Nick> it always scares me when KT gets all dominatrixy
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Re: Morale for Ops

I think it's kind of ridiculous and anyone defending this system has completely lose their mind.

There is absolutely no reason for ops to cost morale.  It makes this game frustratingly impossible.  Can't do a pi because it costs 40 moral, then you fail....then you can't take any planets, then you cant make any retakes, then you log off...

"It's very quiet on the political arena. I wish someone would stir up some trouble!"

Re: Morale for Ops

Well it evens the odds for small guys. Makes the game strategically more progressive. Involves more tactical unity in the family, maybe by using multiple strategies or keeping varied networth ranges in key players. I do believe it is bogus to constrain limits to morale overhaul to networth of families when your playing a multi player galaxy, I think the morale cost should be kept to players not families, in a single players galaxy makes more sense to include entirety of networth compared too families.
It helps when these morale constraints limit how much damage can be done one empire to another empire but not when you've got ten families of seven in a galaxy and the best family can't compete with out everyone noticing who has lost how much morale. Everybody would just wait for attacks too be made and then mount an assault on the worn out big guy.
Three rounds ago in sb I go completely molly wapped by one empire three times in one sitting. He hit me for three servings. 120 planets easy and had 1 million nw on me. Round before that got hit up by scorp and McTejiga practical same time and they mashed me up after a late start.

One life to live in is all that a person needs. When traveling down a road looking for the ascension to greater things, all that really matters is the way you got to the end, when you reach your final destination did you help or hurt more?

Re: Morale for Ops

You see were I'm getting at. It's not fun when your getting pounded and the other is saying it's just strategy... so maybe switching up these constraints would prove better than the way it is now.

One life to live in is all that a person needs. When traveling down a road looking for the ascension to greater things, all that really matters is the way you got to the end, when you reach your final destination did you help or hurt more?

Re: Morale for Ops

1mAnaRmY wrote:

Well it evens the odds for small guys. Makes the game strategically more progressive. Involves more tactical unity in the family, maybe by using multiple strategies or keeping varied networth ranges in key players. I do believe it is bogus to constrain limits to morale overhaul to networth of families when your playing a multi player galaxy, I think the morale cost should be kept to players not families, in a single players galaxy makes more sense to include entirety of networth compared too families.
It helps when these morale constraints limit how much damage can be done one empire to another empire but not when you've got ten families of seven in a galaxy and the best family can't compete with out everyone noticing who has lost how much morale. Everybody would just wait for attacks too be made and then mount an assault on the worn out big guy.
Three rounds ago in sb I go completely molly wapped by one empire three times in one sitting. He hit me for three servings. 120 planets easy and had 1 million nw on me. Round before that got hit up by scorp and McTejiga practical same time and they mashed me up after a late start.

If you got hit like that, who is to blame? The players for playing the game, or you who let them set up on you easily and probably didnt had any defences knowing someone can hit u anytime ? Think about it

Re: Morale for Ops

exceed wrote:

If you got hit like that, who is to blame? The players for playing the game, or you who let them set up on you easily and probably didnt had any defences knowing someone can hit u anytime ? Think about it


victim-blaming isn't cool!

<@Nick> it always scares me when KT gets all dominatrixy
* I_like_pie is now known as pie|bbl
<@KT|afk> Look at him run!
<@Nick> if you tell him to slap you and call you mommy
<@Nick> i'm leaving and never coming back