1 Topic by Xeno (edited by Xeno 10-Aug-2015 23:54:11)

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Topic: Declare Civil War

Here's something fun:

Allow a leader or any vice leader  to 'Declare Civil War'.  Also allow a civil war to be declared by 1/3 of a fam's (hidden) votes.

When a civil war is declared:

1.  Leader and vice leader privileges and options are disabled.
2.  All tags are removed.
3.  Voting for leader is disabled.
4.  Sending exploration ships is disabled.
5.  Other families are not permitted to attack the family that declares a civil war, except that fam or fams that were at war with the fam at the time it declared a civil war. 
6. A fam that declares a civil war is not permitted to attack other fams, except those it was already at war with at the time it declared a civil war.
7.  Normal morale losses apply to intra-fam attacks
6.  A civil war can end only by majority vote.  By default, a player's vote to end a civil war is set to 'No'.
7.  Players who lose all of their planets including their home planet during a civil war are 'killed-off' and are thus not given the option to stay in fam at EOR.

One potential 'misuse' of this might be that two warring fams could use this to prevent 'vulturing'.  Two fams might declare war on one another and then both also declare a civil war to prevent other fams from vulturing either of them.  Not a bad thing, I think.

One risk in declaring a civil war would be that there would be nothing stopping other fams from coring or setting-up on a fam which declares a civil war, which would, I suppose, provide an incentive to a fam to end its civil war fast.

The intention of allowing a fam to declare a civil war is to provide an opportunity to set-up the fam's roster for next round.

Why by 1/3 vote?  In some cases, a small group of players in a fam might want to try and usurp and even kill-off a fam's leadership and clique of vets, which might even comprise the majority of a fam. 

Why by vice leader?

There might be cases when a vice leader thinks they can take over the fam to better manage it next round.

Why by leader?  A leader might want to kill-off semi-inactive players, or those pesky piranha-like semi-rogue SS players trying to take over his fam wink, but wants to do so in an honorable fashion, rather than just marking them all rogue.

Personally, I'd like to see civil wars happen because I think it would be be fun at end of round to fight among a fam just for kicks.

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Re: Declare Civil War

This is a very intriguing idea.  I think, however, that putting too much structure into these things runs the risk of introducing exploits.  The vulturing you mention is a good example of that, but also enforced protection in general is a slippery slope.

Still, this sounds interesting.  Some thoughts/questions in particular:

Xeno wrote:

4.  Sending exploration ships is disabled.

What would be the reason for this one?

Xeno wrote:

5.  Other families are not permitted to attack the family that declares a civil war, except that fam or fams that were at war with the fam at the time it declared a civil war. 
6. A fam that declares a civil war is not permitted to attack other fams, except those it was already at war with at the time it declared a civil war.

This is where it gets a little dicey.  I can see families declaring civil war repeatedly to avoid attacks.  I can understand the idea of wanting to protect families who are dealing with issues, but on the other hand for a war game, exploiting another family's intra-fam issues seems somewhat of a natural course of action.

Think of it this way: if civil wars are possible without protection then it makes civil wars that much more damaging.  It would become more important make sure everybody in the family is happy.  If protection is in place, this is less true.

Xeno wrote:

6.  A civil war can end only by majority vote.  By default, a player's vote to end a civil war is set to 'No'.

This is where it gets really interesting to me.  What happens in actual history when civil wars are involved?  Sometimes, the losing party simply loses.  Other times however, there is an actual split.

It would be interesting if we could represent such a thing in IC: officially dividing pre-set families.  The most immediate question that comes to mind is: can 2 families share a home system?  Should they?  I guess that's a matter of discussion.

Xeno wrote:

Why by 1/3 vote?  In some cases, a small group of players in a fam might want to try and usurp and even kill-off a fam's leadership and clique of vets, which might even comprise the majority of a fam.

I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing.  Again, if players are organized enough to want to do their own thing, maybe we should let them.  I'd go a step further and say maybe we should even encourage this type of thinking.

Very cool idea.  I'd be interested in hearing what other people think.

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Re: Declare Civil War

This is a cool idea...but would need a lot of polish to work.

Xeno wrote:

6.  A civil war can end only by majority vote.  By default, a player's vote to end a civil war is set to 'No'.

With the current activity level of IC, it's entirely possible for a scenario where 1/3 of the family is active, votes to start a civil war, and then the family doesn't have the ability to end it when they're done.  Easy solution to this would be to set the default vote to "Abstain", and require 1/3-1/2 of the family to vote.

Xeno wrote:

5.  Other families are not permitted to attack the family that declares a civil war, except that fam or fams that were at war with the fam at the time it declared a civil war. 
6. A fam that declares a civil war is not permitted to attack other fams, except those it was already at war with at the time it declared a civil war.

Nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope.  Way too many ways this could be exploited.


This in general seems to favor the side of a theoretical rebel group within a family.  Personally within the current family style set up that we have, I hate this idea.  If we were to do away with traditional family restrictions, and say have a galaxy of individual empires where everyone is able to aid and help each other as they please this would make sense....wait...that gives me another idea...which I'm typing up now....anyway

In a galaxy like Starburst, I hate the idea of built in intra-fam conflict and without considerable changes to the keys to our game as long as I'm a moderator I'll fight it

That being said..../me points to new ideas thread

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Re: Declare Civil War

http://imperialconflict.com/forum/viewt … 4#p1745454

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Re: Declare Civil War

I like pie wrote:
Xeno wrote:

4.  Sending exploration ships is disabled.

What would be the reason for this one?

The reason for this would be to prevent a fam from going into protection offered by declaring civil war in order to send expos and portal enemy cores while under protection.

I like pie wrote:
Xeno wrote:

5.  Other families are not permitted to attack the family that declares a civil war, except that fam or fams that were at war with the fam at the time it declared a civil war. 
6. A fam that declares a civil war is not permitted to attack other fams, except those it was already at war with at the time it declared a civil war.

This is where it gets a little dicey.  I can see families declaring civil war repeatedly to avoid attacks.  I can understand the idea of wanting to protect families who are dealing with issues, but on the other hand for a war game, exploiting another family's intra-fam issues seems somewhat of a natural course of action.

Think of it this way: if civil wars are possible without protection then it makes civil wars that much more damaging.  It would become more important make sure everybody in the family is happy.  If protection is in place, this is less true.

Yes, you're right.  After thinking about it, I suppose there shouldn't be protection.  And if there's no protection, no reason to disable sending expos.

Still... the vultures!  Grr...what to do about vultures?

I like pie wrote:
Xeno wrote:

6.  A civil war can end only by majority vote.  By default, a player's vote to end a civil war is set to 'No'.

This is where it gets really interesting to me.  What happens in actual history when civil wars are involved?  Sometimes, the losing party simply loses.  Other times however, there is an actual split.

It would be interesting if we could represent such a thing in IC: officially dividing pre-set families.  The most immediate question that comes to mind is: can 2 families share a home system?  Should they?  I guess that's a matter of discussion.

It could be an option to split a fam.  Nic idea!  They could be conduct any sort of diplomacy thereafter, and even exchange planets for pnap, or 48hour nap.  Or they could even become allies.

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6 Reply by Xeno (edited by Xeno 04-Sep-2015 15:05:57)

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Re: Declare Civil War

Undeath wrote:

This is a cool idea...but would need a lot of polish to work.

Xeno wrote:

6.  A civil war can end only by majority vote.  By default, a player's vote to end a civil war is set to 'No'.

With the current activity level of IC, it's entirely possible for a scenario where 1/3 of the family is active, votes to start a civil war, and then the family doesn't have the ability to end it when they're done.  Easy solution to this would be to set the default vote to "Abstain", and require 1/3-1/2 of the family to vote.

I think default to 'abstain' to end civil war is a good idea, but it should still require a majority vote of those who don't abstain to end civil war.

If fam still has too many inactives to get enough votes to end civil war (maybe someone votes no and goes inactive for a few days), they can kill-off one or as many as they need to in order to get enough votes to end civil war.  I mean, that's what sort of happens in civil wars anyway, no?  Keep killing the opposition until there's not all that much opposition left, right?

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