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Topic: Russia

A very interesting read

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/arti … 99s-russia

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
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Re: Russia

Wow she be dying fast!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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Re: Russia

There's a run on the shops and supermarkets by ordinary Russians to get rid of their Rubles. The west shouldn't make to much concessions now or will regret it later on.

1. Get Russia out of Ukraine, then make it a member of NATO.
2. Stop Russian aid to Syria and Iran.
3. Transform Russian gov into a democracy.
4. Punish the leaders responsible for those tens of thousands of Russians who are in labor camps or died there past 10 years to send a clear message to any dictatorship in the world: your time will come.

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Re: Russia

so in short you mean.. declare war on russia?

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Re: Russia

Putin cannot control the oligarchs if they come for him. Just keep the fire going and he will resign or he will die.

Then push for return of all Ukraine lands, All Georgia lands, an agreement to never touch Ukraine or Georgia again as well an immeadiate end of aid/cooperation/protection of Iran.

The last stipulation would be to not block oil or natural gas shipments that are paid for ever again.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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Re: Russia

His regime is dying Schniepel, and they will concede to almost any demand to save themselves. If they don't give in they will go down. Problem is that the west is probably not really interested in a democracy in Russia.

If the west let him go off the hook they are stupid. Worldwide economy revives sooner or later and energy prices might go up again. Only a real democracy will lift Russia out of this economic downfall and assures for peace in the long run.

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Re: Russia

well hell we just prostrated ourselves to North Korea and gave our pants to Cuba, you think this clown of a President is going to challenge Russia?

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: Russia

no, but I was saying what should happen, not what's going to happen.

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Re: Russia

I dont really think you can force a country to become a "real" (where the hell do we have a real democracy besides switzerland maybe) democracy. Thats something the russian people need to do, not the west.
Seriously, the EU has a bunch of own problems it should solve before we start forcing our point of view on other countries.

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Re: Russia

lets throw pistols into Russia til they sort it out

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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11 Reply by Little Paul (edited by Little Paul 19-Dec-2014 17:47:01)

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Re: Russia

"I dont really think you can force a country to become a "real" (where the hell do we have a real democracy besides switzerland maybe) democracy."
That is more a discussion about Symantics than about the actual point here don't you agree? In any case, in Russia you wouldn't have the possibility to choose your opinion like you do now without going to a labour camp.

"Thats something the russian people need to do, not the west."
They don't stand a chance in hell. Why let them go trough hardship and many dead people first before they ever become democratic?

"Seriously, the EU has a bunch of own problems it should solve before we start forcing our point of view on other countries."
No, we should solve both.

just in case you do want to debate about democracy:
Democracy imo is about power balances and control systems. Voting is in a way a system to control the gov. Imperfect and inefficient as it might be, it works. People can force the gov to respect certain laws and even force the gov to actively enforce them if need be. These systems will never be perfect, but are still better then anything we have tried so far.

If (part) of the gov succeeds in fooling the people, the democratic control system is less effective. Propaganda, intimidation and disinformation all lead to less democracy.

Russians can't "choose" for democracy. Most of those who openly did are in concentration camps. If your only option is a concentration camp or silence its an easy choice. Even those few mostly unaffected by daily propaganda of the gov system who want to raise their voice have to be very brave. Most of the brave are in jail. If the only crap we see everyday was party propaganda, you and me would probably believe it too.

I don't doubt there will be riots. But with enough pressure, transition will happen without bloodshed.

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12 Reply by Render

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Re: Russia

Little Paul wrote:

3. Transform Russian gov into a democracy.


like USA demokrazy you mean?

I dont think there aint demokrazies in the world anymore, they kall it demokrazy just to hide the government of kapital, doing tehir moves behind the kurtain, on a global basis.

Whatever tries to be different to that hidden diktaktorship and anti-system is waht the pop mass really wants, not brokers and beautiful people like you guys, the working klass I mean, to kut the so worked out zhains in their minds and BE FREE.

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Re: Russia

USA is a REPUBLIC, not a democracy. It's a democratic form of government, but not a purebred democracy.

Modestus Experitus

Arby: A very strict mod, reminds me of a fat redneck who drives a truck around all day with a beer in one hand. I hated this guy at the start, however, I played a round in PW with him where he went as an anonymous player. Our fam got smashed up and everyone pretty much left. Arby stayed around and helped out the remaining family. At the end of the round he revealed himself.... My views on him have changed since. Your a good guy.....

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14 Reply by Little Paul (edited by Little Paul 20-Dec-2014 11:23:15)

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Re: Russia

like Schniepel already said, there is no pure democracy. But that is not the point at all. Point is you have a (more or less) transparent gov structure with a control system build on it.

Our systems have flaws, are inefficient and far from perfect. I will never deny it. I will also never deny the huge cost related to it. But its way better then any authoritarian system in the world today or in the past and with a little luck always will be.

A totalitarian regime is still much more unstable, slow in adapting, corrupt, inefficient, and often dangerous for its neighbors and inhabitants.

In our countries corruption is all over the news. But compare it to china, where the media is almost silent about it, yet corruption is rampant and incomparably high. It is in fact so high, that everybody knows about it despite the lack of transparency.

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15 Reply by Render

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Re: Russia

Little Paul wrote:

Point is you have a (more or less) transparent gov structure with a control system build on it.

lol, not in Spain, and we gonna zhange it aSap

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16 Reply by Little Paul (edited by Little Paul 21-Dec-2014 15:40:27)

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Re: Russia

progress towards democracy is always slow. Spain started in the late seventies and came from almost nothing on almost any level. Economy, infrastructure and administration where at a very low level. Not the best conditions to start from.

We expect to much. It can't change overnight and often goes back and forth. Despite the crisis, I think Spain managed fairly well considering where they came from.

In any case its a nice example of how a country can be ruined by decades of dictatorship.

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