26 (edited by V. Kemp 17-Mar-2013 04:46:14)

Re: ObamaCare and the rush for Doctors to retire early

Checkups sure. Tests, as necessary--Always less often than the unhealthy, who more often have problems, more often suffer symptoms of disease, and more often require tests.

Consultations and wellness classes and exams? Yeah, I have no idea what you're talking about. Health isn't complicated. I don't know what new age bullshit you're into, but these weird things beyond regular checkups are certainly not a part of the average person's schedule, and certainly less often for healthy people than unhealthy people.

I literally have no idea what you think you're saying:
"Instead of people not doing those things you will have thousands more people trying to do those things in every city. That costs money."

Instead of people not getting unnecessary tests, there'll be more people trying to get those unnecessary tests? What? Why wouldn't they do regular and logical things? Why (and how!?) would they both not get logical things and get them at the same time? That's not rationally possible. If you're complaining that "they" (who?) won't get "those things" (what things?), how can you at the same time that "thousands more" will try to get "those things"?

And you go on rambling vaguely about people needing checkups in order to be healthy. I've already decimated your ridiculous notion that our healthcare system makes people healthy, that it is the primary source of health.

Healthy people need less tests (none of the regular check-up types, void of symptoms of disease, are very costly), because they suffer from less disease. In regard to testing, they spend less on healthcare. Healthy people suffer less diseases (of virtually every type), thus cost less money both in treatment of these diseases and in testing as a result of symptoms to diagnose disease.

Yes, some people overuse the system. Those people are not "healthy people" categorically, and you've made no argument for the position that they are.

It's certainly theoretically possible that healthy people tend to overuse healthcare more than unhealthy people, but you haven't offered any more evidence or arguments for that hypothesis than for the hypothesis that French people are more genetically predisposed for life on Mars than Spanish people. You've offered no evidence whatsoever for your claim that healthy people use any healthcare system more often than unhealthy people.

Healthy people use the healthcare system less to treat diseases, because they get less of them. You obviously accept this fact. In this, they incur less costs.

Healthy people use the healthcare system less to test for diseases, because they suffer less diseases, they suffer less symptoms, and they have less health problems which prompt them to go to doctors/ERs and have symptoms diagnosed for causes. You obviously accept this fact. In this, they incur less costs.

Additionally, healthy (and educated) people accept that drugs and MDs (while they have plenty of legitimate purposes in surgery and even many drugs--I've never claimed otherwise) are not the entirety of medicine and health. Diet, exercise, and getting away from all of the toxins that government allows in food and water (and even intentionally places in them, in such cases as fluoride and accepting bribes to accept known toxins as unlabeled additives) are obviously beneficial to health, yet people who give attention to these things incur no costs to the healthcare system at large, and I'll wager they tend to pay for their own healthcare far more than those receiving state-subsidized care (which includes subsidies from everyone who DOES pay for their own care, in the form of increased bills, beyond taxation).

You seem to be alleging, as the sole basis for your claim that healthy people cost the healthcare system as a whole more than unhealthy people (who undisputedly suffer more diseases and require more treatments/surgeries/procedures/hospitalization/emergency care), that healthy people get more tests. That's it? Not only are you making this completely unbacked claim, but claiming it not only balances out with but exceeds the costs of unhealthy people who suffer far more diseases and require far more treatment?

Laughable.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: ObamaCare and the rush for Doctors to retire early

"Checkups sure. Tests, as necessary--Always less often than the unhealthy, who more often have problems, more often suffer symptoms of disease, and more often require tests."

Wrong.  The unhealthy don't do them at all.   Once a year is more frequent than never.

You are like a woman who buys 3 pairs of shoes on sale, insisting that compared with the nonsale cost of the shoes, she has SAVED money.  When in fact she spent $0 on shoes all month and then went and maxxd out the card.

The cost of covering preventative care for everybody is a steep immediate surge in the use of medical care that must be paid immediately in real dollars.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: ObamaCare and the rush for Doctors to retire early

The unhealthy who never get tested suffer far more illness and disease, the treatments for which far exceed the costs of relatively cheap tests.

Heart bypass vs cholesterol test? There's no contest. Presumably you're completely clueless as to the basic math of the equation, resulting in your bizarre claims that healthy people getting tests is more expensive than unhealthy people having heart attacks, strokes, bypasses, therapy for years, ambulances designed to transport 350 lb people, etc.

Preventative care is cheap, and healthy people do 99% of it for themselves and pay for what of it they use from the healthcare system (pretty much just in occasional tests to be on the safe side).

You're like a child who doesn't pay the bills, thinking a dinner out must cost more than a new car because the meal costs more up front!

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: ObamaCare and the rush for Doctors to retire early

Right because if you eat whole grains and skip the red meat you will never ever ever have a heart attack or a stroke.  Your death will come from transcendental meditation, your body will evaporate like the kid in Powder leaving only smiles and a lingering scent of pine.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: ObamaCare and the rush for Doctors to retire early

You're arguing as if healthy people do nothing more than eat whole grains and skip red meat. This is not remotely the case. You're arguing as if health, diet, and lifestyle don't drastically reduce the occurrence of diseases as compared to the rates of disease among unhealthy people with poor diets.

The human body is a remarkable thing, capable and eager to repair itself in many cases, given the right nutrients.

Yes, you will have much less risk of heart attack or stroke if you're healthy. This is a fact. Heart attacks are not a natural part of getting older, they're a natural result of unhealthy diet and lifestyle choices.

What I'm saying is a well established fact. You've chosen to know nothing about health or nutrition. The information is readily available. Obviously, there's nothing I can say here that will change your faith that God controls your health, and that all of the chemicals and empty calories you consume have no effect on your body. The notion that disease happens just as often to healthy people as unhealthy people is absolute ridiculous, and we know with absolute certainty that it's ignorant and wrong. The notion that healthy people getting tests is more costly than the preventable diseases unhealthy people suffer from is literally insane.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: ObamaCare and the rush for Doctors to retire early

Healthy people getting tested, and making appointments to talk about health, will expand our CURRENT healthcare system, because it is not set up for that.  It will cost more to insist everybody engage in preventative care, than we are currently paying, and enough more that it will be a problem.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

32 (edited by V. Kemp 19-Mar-2013 02:19:12)

Re: ObamaCare and the rush for Doctors to retire early

Yes, healthy people making appointments to talk about health is where most of the money spent on healthcare is going. I stand corrected. You are right.

You can't eat right and be active without spending money on "prevenative care." I tax you every morning I eat organic celery, carrots, and humus and drink organic juice. I'm so inconsiderate and cost the system so much! And then I go and lift weights, run on a treadmill, and have vigorous sex with my wife to exercise. "Preventative care" is so expensive! I could never be this healthy without fictional meetings with MDs regularly, which cost a lot! If only I knew as much about health as you. sad

My apologies.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]