Topic: more even gameplay

Ok kinda brainstorming a little. But ive thought of some of this before.

First thing is, a lot of fams plan before round starts, and obv some fams fill faster. So to make it so fams that fill slower have the chance to plan as much, make the map and rankings unveiwable until round starts. Wont completely stop planning so its good.

the endu bid. At the start of round the players who are faster will always get the first bid in. Have a ticks delay, so everyone can put a bid on first tick and have a chance of getting early endu. This helps people using phones who just cqnt compete.

Inactives. Auto delete inactives at the 48hr mark and transfer expos to fam leader.

Cores: make cores clearer, like auto select the most efficient core for each fam. This means inexperienced leaders can see more clearly how to defend themselves.

Fleet costs: make units slightly more expensive for larger fams, this doesnt stop small players in big fams doing mass jumps. But it means smaller fams can try to have a more even fleet to bigger fams, it also increases the use for the sentinel tag.

Deletorz, make it so if u delete from a fam it takes 48hrs to re-random. Stops peeps from trying to get out of fams they feel are a bit poor. If u have A good reason for deleting u could just contact a mod to randomly place u again straight away smile.

Ill think of more stuff later. But let me know what u think of ANY of these smile

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Re: more even gameplay

This is not a socialist game first off.

Secondly, if you start penalizing the "top" fams for being good and active I will most likely stop playing. And I would imagine a lot of other people would too.

Nobody wants to work their rears off and be active only to watch some crap inactive fam keep up with them just because people want to make it "fair" or "fun" for everyone. Get real

Solis - #7872

Re: more even gameplay

I actually don't see how this makes it a socialist game.
I really disagree with fleet costs rising due to nw / rank.

The 48 Hr inactive bit, maybe not giving expos but unused resources would be decent.

I've always thought that cores should be defined. Then noob A.) knows where to explore first, B.) Naps become easier as there is no argument of where cores are.

Friend is a four letter word.

Re: more even gameplay

Ok ignore the fleet cost one.

Im not trying to suggest penalizing top fams im trying to think of a way to help new players and players who have been dealt A bad hand. Your response was very mean, and although i know being good means a lot to other people, but u dont need to be like that, this game is for everyone.

Been dreaming, I've been waiting, To fly with those brave ponies
The Wonderbolts, their daring tricks, Spinning 'round and having kicks
Perform for crowds of thousands, They'll shower us with diamonds
The Wonderbolts will see me right here at the Gala!

Re: more even gameplay

My response was not mean, it was true. If you take that as mean then that is your own problem...not mine. The idea that we should "cater" to inexperienced players or penalize the top fams is absolutely the worst thing you could do to any game.

If people want to make things more balanced then they need to train new players how to play and get them interested in being active. That is the whole point of a game from a "owner" perspective.

1. Attacking galaxies
2. Eco Galaxies

There needs to be those things where people can join and play competitively in order to train them in each particular category. Virgo was a flop and for good reason...the tutors were not great, they didn't care, and the players didn't feel like they were part of something.

So as of right now the newer, less experienced players get driven away by the old vets who just crush people. But if you change up too much stuff to favor the new players then you got all the old players leaving and then the game completely dies.

Better ideas are needed...

Solis - #7872

Re: more even gameplay

Satanic Spawn wrote:

My response was not mean, it was true. If you take that as mean then that is your own problem...not mine. The idea that we should "cater" to inexperienced players or penalize the top fams is absolutely the worst thing you could do to any game.

This isn't necessarily true.  The game indeed shouldn't cater to inexperienced players but it also shouldn't be so heavily skewed towards the highly active.  The game is imbalanced right now and has been for quite some time.

Besides, we already "penalize" large fams and players by limiting their attacking options w NW restrictions.  We do the same thing with overbuilding penalties.  These are good examples of imposing limits to prevent the highly active from just shooting to the very top with no chance for anybody to catch them.  I don't agree with the fleet cost thing myself, but I don't think the concept/intent is necessarily a bad thing.

This isn't about "socialism" in any way, it's about balance for one and widening the game's appeal for two.  If we only cater to the super-dedicated and the highly-active then the game's playerbase won't grow.

Satanic Spawn wrote:

So as of right now the newer, less experienced players get driven away by the old vets who just crush people. But if you change up too much stuff to favor the new players then you got all the old players leaving and then the game completely dies.

You said this quite well actually.  The game needs to be balanced.  Right now the vets may stay, but it's only really the vets who are staying.  We need to figure out how to keep new players too, without the vets wanting to leave.  inevitably some will leave anyway but that's part of what happens when you change the game at all: some will like the change and some will not.  It's a balancing act to figure out what risk of losing old players is involved to attract and keep new ones.

Satanic Spawn wrote:

Better ideas are needed...

I disagree.  I think rather people need to be more open minded about the reasons for change.

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Re: more even gameplay

As for the ideas themselves:

Alundra wrote:

First thing is, a lot of fams plan before round starts, and obv some fams fill faster. So to make it so fams that fill slower have the chance to plan as much, make the map and rankings unveiwable until round starts. Wont completely stop planning so its good.

We actually discussed something similar to this to address the problem of people family hopping before the round starts.  It's a rather disruptive issue, but we understand why players do it.

Our idea specifically was to split the pre-round phase into two: one for registration/filling up and the other for pre-start planning

For the first phase, everything is actually hidden.  Rankings, map, fam page, even empire page.  The players are all "blind" and all they know is that they have successfully joined the galaxy.  Nobody sees anything until this phase ends.  This prevents players from saying "this fam sucks there's nobody here" and leaving, which is devastating for newer players within those families who don't understand why people keep leaving.  Plus, this also means that all the fams would actually fill up.  Right now, what you end up having is a smaller family that has multiple people come and go.  This would prevent that from happening.

If you want to draft in with a buddy, you would "double up" with them and the game would be smart enough to account for players coming in as pairs.

The second phase would be more like what the current pre-round phase is like.  All at once the galaxy, map, family members, etc would be revealed to everybody.  Players wouldn't be allowed to delete at this point.  This would also be where the other draft feature "draft into fam number" could be used.  Spots would be reserved for this.

This would solve the exact problem you describe, where smaller families are left in the dust because people keep leaving them for better prospects.  At the same time, this would solve the problem for active players who don't want to be in a family with few players.  On top of that it would allow all players the exact same amount of time to plan their BOR activities.  If a family still sucks, they will still start badly.  If a family is still good they will still be rewarded for their skill.  This removes the "luck" that is currently involved.


Alundra wrote:

the endu bid. At the start of round the players who are faster will always get the first bid in. Have a ticks delay, so everyone can put a bid on first tick and have a chance of getting early endu. This helps people using phones who just cqnt compete.

I'm more with Satanic Spawn on this one.  This is more of a design problem that should be addressed via a mobile interface.  Rushing to get to the market early is part of the BOR excitement imo.  I'm not sure if we should curtail that.

Alundra wrote:

Inactives. Auto delete inactives at the 48hr mark and transfer expos to fam leader.

This is a great idea.  ATM inactives are deleted after 2 weeks.  We should consider sooner for BOR given how crucial that time is.

Alundra wrote:

Cores: make cores clearer, like auto select the most efficient core for each fam. This means inexperienced leaders can see more clearly how to defend themselves.

I had an idea similar to this for "core suggestions" that would highlight systems around your HS for any number of ticks away.  This wouldn't effect any actual game functions, but would rather give everybody (not just new players) the ability to visualize the immediate area around their family for a given radius.

Alundra wrote:

Fleet costs: make units slightly more expensive for larger fams, this doesnt stop small players in big fams doing mass jumps. But it means smaller fams can try to have a more even fleet to bigger fams, it also increases the use for the sentinel tag.

This is actually similar to what overbuild penalties do.  I'm not against this concept entirely but we would have to do this in a way that doesn't just entirely screw the top fams.  Satanic Spawn is right that this would effectively be punishing families for doing well.  I like the intent of this but this idea specifically concerns me.  We could probably try solve this issue with a more conservative approach.

Alundra wrote:

Deletorz, make it so if u delete from a fam it takes 48hrs to re-random. Stops peeps from trying to get out of fams they feel are a bit poor. If u have A good reason for deleting u could just contact a mod to randomly place u again straight away smile.

This goes back to my first point, which would make this unnecessary.


Thanks for the ideas, it's very helpful to have player perspective on these matters.

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Re: more even gameplay

I don't disagree on what you say about attacking penalties and OB costs, but those are not really penalties. Those are safeguards to keep things a somewhat even playing field. The idea of taking activity as a basis for making games more even is not. If I am more active than you I should inherently be better (barring poor skill).

Now, do I think it should be a runaway in the first 1 or 2 weeks like it is currently? No...definitely not! But in large this might just have to do with the current way fams are set up.

1. Stop letting players delete and rejoin. If a player lands in a fam he either plays in it, or if he deletes he does not get back in. Only new players do.
2. Allow more "placement" or drafting. The idea is that people get to play with active members instead of getting stuck in a fam of inactive noobs which makes you want to pull your hair out.

I have said this for a while now, but the idea of "drafting" from a player pool seems more and more appealing. If you are picked as a leader through an application process and then a draft is held, then it helps each fam to have a fair shot at the same amount of active players. Thus evening the playing field.

Solis - #7872

Re: more even gameplay

I am not sure about this not allowing people to delete or unable to rejoin thing. Not something I personally do, I tend to stick around, but there's just a few people I'd rather not play with at all & I don't think I'd wanna be stuck in a fam with them or unable to rejoin because of that. Some people just don't get on & I think that's something to be considered.

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