I know what Einstein is trying to say. He's right... get rid of insurance - just have government, you and your doctor.

I love how absolutely retarded human beings can be.

I don't like its effects, though.

Mace,

America has the best healthcare in the world because of free markets. It would be better if our markets were freer and our elected officials didn't stifle competition.

Every nation on the earth with socialized care has crappy healthcare because of those systems.

'nuff said.

And no, flawed, dishonest, and downright stupid measures of "availability" are not comprehensive ratings of healthcare.

i am glad you visited every country in the world to analyze their healthcare, kempy.

Flint offers US-american readers "pictures". The only language most of them really understand
Btw. Flint is now a politican. The most simple message is the best.

Norway

theres ur example kemp we oh so socialist state...

"The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems was last produced in 2000, and the WHO no longer produces such a ranking table, because of the complexity of the task."

I mentioned this. You glossed over it.

"Dr Christopher Murray, Director of WHO

1. We have 300 million people in our national system
2. Life expectancy is up there with Japan
3. Major killers are drinking, smoking, sitting on our ass, driving crazy, and staph.
4. Given guaranteed access to affordable healthcare, 99% of America will spend the savings drinking more, smoking more, sitting on our ass in front of bigger and better TVs longer, and driving better vehicles more crazily.
Staph is just something out of Quarantine

Having been to a hospital in the USA. Its pretty decent. The American model delivers excellent results if you can afford it. Excellent. Almost Japan good. Better than Somalia. Definitely. However if you cannot afford... could almost be Somalia. You get some 22 year old assisted by his 13 year old cousin or wife, charging you 7 years salary to amputate your testes when you went in to pick up some cough medicine. Luckily in 10 years' time he'll be an excellent heart surgeon and will save the life of a fat smoker whose dad used to work for Enron and sold his stock early.

I like cute foreigners like Mace who think that everything in the USA is uniform across the nation.

Newsflash: The USA is made up of 50 states. It's a big place. With a big population. And many differences across the nation.

And thanks for your stupid straw-man argument about a 13 year old doctor wannabe. Because, clearly, a free-market based healthcare system with safety-net asisstance for the poor inherently means child doctors! I'm enjoying this honest exchange!

Noir,

My basis is availability of specialists at the top of their fields and availability of technology that nations with socialist medicine cannot afford to provide for those on their state plans. My basis is the wealth of Americans purchasing technology in a free market vs poorer people purchasing technology in a free market. As it turns out, more money means more stuff. My basis is life expectancy after diagnosis with various ailments--a measure more of the effectiveness of care, not general life expectancy which is very problematic for a variety of reasons. My basis is people coming to the USA for top-level care a hell of a lot more than they go to Norway (if that's ever happened at all).

The question is, do you have any reason to doubt the consensus among doctors that the USA has the best medical care in the world, and that's why so many people come to the USA every year for care?

Granted, the USA has serious problems with its healthcare system. A lack of socialized medicine is not one of them. If not for massive government meddling and repression of the free market, the USA would have significantly lower costs as well. I do have very serious problems with US government interference in health insurance and medicine in general in the USA. But that's not the topic of this thread, and the solution to most of these problems is less government regulations stifling competition and inflating costs--not communist medicine where my political/bureaucratic overlords decide what I deserve.

Free markets result in better service and falling prices for all. If this is over your head, or you're just too much of a frightened baby to imagine government not wiping your ass, that's your problem. The notion that socialized medicine, not just a safety-net, is somehow advantageous is laughable. There's absolutely no basis except indoctrination and ignorance for these ridiculous claims. You have absolutely nothing to support your wishful thinking.

Free market gives the best TOP level service, and thats in the US, I do not contest that, but best healthcare for the overall/average population is not in the US and u know this.

I don't have a problem with a free market medical system. I also have no problem with a free market supermarket/grocery sector. However the problem is I don't think Walmart value is an acceptable level if healthcare for the poor.