Re: Tax the @#% out of the rich
It is the only viable alternative now that it is clear that taxing the @#% out of the poor and middle class vis a vis Regan / Thatcher tickle-down economics has been a complete botch.
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Imperial Forum → Politics → Tax the @#% out of the rich
It is the only viable alternative now that it is clear that taxing the @#% out of the poor and middle class vis a vis Regan / Thatcher tickle-down economics has been a complete botch.
To accomplish what? How is it a viable alternative, considering that no tax rate on the rich could sustain current spending levels?
No matter who you tax, you tax everyone the same. The best alternative is to cut taxes to 10% and slash welfare spending and entitlement programs, and unchain the free-market.
I don't think the troll will understand your point that taxing the rich still hurts us all. He wants hope and change he can believe in. Keep it simple.
It's ok. I'll introduce him to the concepts of consumer/producer surplus, and deadweight loss.
Ready for your lesson Xeno?
you could hire the unemployed to kill the homeless
worked for Kublai Khan
It's only logical.
2 tier tax rate, 0% up to a minimum level (also same as any welfare for those unable to find employment) then a flat tax rate above that. Supplement this with a sales tax that is variable to encourage spending on certain items (i.e. healthy food is lower than fast food.) Luxury items are also taxed higher than essential items.
Pros: unfettered consumption is reigned in. No matter your opinion on global warming and "green" issues, it is hard to argue that resources are not finite (otherwise they would be free/near free in the free market) so to ensure that there is stuff to have later we need to ensure some controls on consumption now.
Cons: Complicated to set up, will require a lot of work by public servants to ensure that it is maintained and all appropriate tax is collected.
"it is hard to argue that resources are not finite"
I could buy you a science textbook and read it to you?
"The best alternative is to cut taxes to 10% and slash welfare spending and entitlement programs, and unchain the free-market."
Cut taxes 10% on whom exactly? The rich, when they are making record profits? Upper income earners need to be taxed more. The problem is that they have the resources to relocate to low-tax countries.
Slash welfare spending when people need it the most? This is unethical.
Cut entitlement programs when the baby boomer generation is about to retire? They've paid into pensions and planned for retirement according to certain expectations. To change it on them at the last minute like this would not only be impossible to pass through legislatures without undermining democratic principles, but also just plain dirty.
Yes the free market needs to be unchained. A mechanism is needed by which small businesses and start-up companies are able to compete with the transnational conglomerates of oligopolies and / or monopolies. We need it sooner rather than later, before these oligopolies and virtual monopolies gain even more political influence.
"Supplement this with a sales tax"
The problem with sales tax is it taxes disproportionate to wealth. The rich don't necessarily spend more than the poor or middle class. Income tax is likewise disproportionate to wealth: a renter working a minimum wage job could pay more in taxes than an elite living on a yacht off daddy's trust funds.
"Luxury items are also taxed higher than essential items."
Problem is that the poor and middle class will buy "luxury" items from time to time as well and yet they will have to pay as much tax as the rich.
The question is how can we tax the @#% our of the rich when the rich have designed the system so they can't get taxed as they ought to be.
I want to clarify that the objective of any tax system should be to PRODUCE a 0% tax environment for EVERYBODY eventually.
I'm glad you clarified that you want to live in a robot-labor society fueled by alien technology while failing to state a desired goal of harming the economy via taxing wealth out of it.
I would be interested in your argument that resources are infinite Kemp, or not finite. They are in some way finite, every resource...
Who cares if they are finite? It creates pressure to innovate.
By some very loose definition, all resources.
But no, I wasn't arguing that we can keep on using the same amount of everything forever.
But most things we use are infinite or can be made to be relatively infinite--Not everything takes as long as diamonds. And, as some things start to become scarce, the free market will provide alternatives. I hopefully don't have to explain that, as scarcity increases, prices increase, and companies and individuals are incentivized to develop and produce alternatives. Even if one thing is finite, the free market will produce virtually infinite alternatives. We're not going to run out of clothes, food, fuel, etc. Ever.
I'm all for protecting the planet, but it needs to be done for the sake of protecting the planet, not some hair-brained idiot academic's prediction that we'll run out of something if we don't forcibly stop using it.
I'm all for reasonable laws to protect the environment and would argue that we need better controls on many chemicals (NOT including CO2), but I don't trust my government or yours to forcibly regulate consumerism without massive corruption and harm. I'm also against our hyper-consumerism, but that I would argue is a cultural fight and, again, I don't trust government to help more than harm.
Not to mention, "finite" is a moot point when the definition of "finite" is "will last 5 billion years, but afterwards is nonrenewable," such as with sunlight. You have to distinguish between short-term finite resources, such as oil, and resources which are finite, but finite in such a way that their date of expiration is so far away that normal societal advancement would render the limitation useless (i.e., if we believe humans will colonize other solar systems in 50,000 years, we don't need to give a crap about the Sun's limited lifespan).
We must also be careful about nonsensical, politically-motivated exaggerations of scarcity. If someone tells us we'll run out of oil in 10-20 years, for instance: they're full of shit. ![]()
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