Topic: SD Market

Don't be tards and just say you don't like it or to throw it out.

- Say what was good about it
- Say what you didn't like about it
- Suggest ways to improve it

The best thing the game has going now is having Ps and Elrohir both able to bring in changes.  So start talking about things so that the Mods can enforce some tweaks or removal, etc.

Re: SD Market

Personally, I liked it.  Granted I didn't get to play it much, but did have a little experience with it.

- Perhaps the range was too big, or there was too high of a chance that the outer edges of the range could be reached.  Ps could easily change it so that there's more of a chance that the averages are met, and then every now and then it spikes, just to throw in some strategy.

- Also, in my opinion, the market shouldn't change that quickly.  It should stay a while at a price so that it affects peoples play and strategy.  And then change every now and then to make people adapt.  If it changes too quick, people have the option of buying real cheap and then hanging on to the res up until the next change to make huge profits.

Re: SD Market

think you hit it spot on there torqez. it was a nice change in game play. but the differences were clearly to much and without everyone realising as fast as others it made a massive advantage/disadvantage.

Re: SD Market

I liked that I could go and buy octarine if I wanted, when I messed up my build strat and couldn't build enough wiz to do SA and I couldn't explore for a couple of days.
I could live without that however.

For me, the difference between having a market and not having one, comes down to whether the galaxy is intended as an SS galaxy or a retro style galaxy.
In a retro gal, I would expect to see people playing SS with variations on the income/attacker strat.  You would take out the market to force people to play this way.
In an SS gal, you would have a market to allow the res based attacker strat.  You would need to set the market prices so there was no penalty/advantage to playing this over the CF based strat.
It is fair if the selling prices of eg. iron is 6, that you have a range of prices that exceeds that of the production of a cf+income bonus+econ bonus by a similar amount.  Making cf the 'stable' income, which can increase to a limited amount, and res the 'floating' income, which can drop below, or exceed the stable income.

Current market implementation has mines making anywhere from 6 to 40 gc per tick.  That's fine, we all have access to the same market, but it's certainly weighting things in the favour of those playing resource based.
To say nothing of the rapid and large swings in price which make the current market function like a broken ATM.  In this case, there is only one strat.  Produce cash, buy res.  repeat until the market rises.  Sell for massive profit.  Buy low, and repeat.  To not do that means you can't compete.  A solo player shouldn't be able to amass 37 million iron in the space of 4 weeks.  It's pumping cash and resources into the galaxy, where a normal market can only redistribute the wealth created by the players in the gal.

No market.
Market fixed at a rate comparable to CF's (taking into account cost of buildings.  Oct and End would sell for more than iron/food to reflect the cost of construction).
Market with floating prices, slow rate of fluctuation, and narrower fixed ranges than the current model.

Pick one according to the gameplay style you want in the galaxy.

This used to be the best signature ever, but after several years, a mod noticed it had a swear in it, and removed it.  I am happy to see they are paying attention.

Re: SD Market

+1 on what warsie said....

Personally I would like a similar round to this one but with no market, so that it comes down to actual skill in setting up your empire and what you build... built too much cf's and not enough mines? Well hard luck for you, should learn to balance your income.

Having a market which flutuates means that those who are online all the time, or at the right time, have a distinct advantage, which is ok, but the same occurs in normal galaxies or in 'normal' SD rounds, I would like a different round where a strat not based on market movement is viable.

But like whatever...

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: SD Market

Had I known the market was going to be as profitable as it is\was\has been my whole strat would have been different, including race.

~*✠ ]PW[ Forever ✠*~

Re: SD Market

Why did you not know? tongue

1) It was announced what it would be like
2) There was an SD trial of the market, where there was a bug and they had to reset

Re: SD Market

I would have taken 100% speed.

~*✠ ]PW[ Forever ✠*~

Re: SD Market

the market needs to be slowed down and less critical changes. profit should not be produced from the market in an "ss" round. at that point we might as well have our own market where we get the money dirrectly

Re: SD Market

It should change once a day.

I am sKoE
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get and beat you with to show you who's in command.

Re: SD Market

I'd like no market as a first choice.

Second choice would be a set market with a wide range between sell and buy so that you would only buy and sell if you're desperate or really messed up your strat tongue

12 (edited by [Render] 07-Oct-2011 08:37:24)

Re: SD Market

NO Market or fixed at high prices

Buy at

Octarine 40
Endurium 30
Iron 15
Food 0.5


Sell at

Octarine 18
Endurium 13
Iron 6
Food 0.1

Re: SD Market

Its obvious that the market was and is sorta crazy this round. It needs fixing YES, but i really wish that people would welcome the change and the innovation they had to adapt to and make some strategic choices for this round.

The problem with the market the way i see it is that it doesnt adjust as the round progresses.

The first three weeks everyone has so low OB and needs turnover quickly, so playing market was hardly worth the halt in infra. However, when you reach 300%, playing market was suddenly very profitable.

In my opinion the randomness is too high, the range of prices and the fact that it can go from top to bottom in no time!

Maybe make it so that the market changes every 5th tick, within a range of say 10-20% of the old price. This way you get more a fluctuation and not suddenrises and falls, and it would be alot more similar to what we see in real life with oilprices etc.

The way the market worked this round is more luck and random, if you see high iron ofcourse you wanna sell iron so you buy mines, but by the time your mines are done, iron may be back down to 5 or so.. No strategy here really.

Also i think for the poeple trying to go with resourcer races, and be more agressive, the market was too unreliable, sell prices often down to 5-6 makes it almost impossible to grow.

In my opinion you want the market to influence strategy, but you dont want market play to be a source of income. You should game the market by adapting to prices, but just sitting around waiting for profit with huge savings isnt what IC is about hehe.

LORD HELP OREGON

14

Re: SD Market

+1 to Noir, starting with fixed high prices then changing slightly as the round advances, considering the bids/sells in the previous 5 tics

I would even say a range of 5-10% of the old price

This way you always expect a change after 5 tics, but never a extreme change so the market doesnt give big advantages and we still keep the game SS

Re: SD Market

> Noir wrote:

>You should game the market by adapting to prices, but just sitting around waiting for profit with huge savings isnt what IC is about hehe.

Unfortunately this is what has happened... I got over this round so I sat and saved for 3-4 days (basically gave up, I figured get killed from saving and falling behind in infra or when market changes get a decent boost) I tripled my NW when the market finally changed and I caught it. Thats BS, I wouldnt have even doubled my NW playing a normal SS strat. I started talking to ppl and found they had massive savings waiting for markets to turn in their favour. We're talking 10 times the amounts I had saved in 3-4 days. They would be cracking billions if the market changed (I know some are now).

1 of 3 things needs to change about market if we are to keep it for future rounds. Either the min/max values change to not allow great disparity (maxing out @ 20-25, food @ .25, mins whatever.) Fix the price to some what how Render has said 2 posts up. Or adjust it a % wise like Noir has posted.

There has been no skill shown, after say the first 2 weeks of round. Which makes this all pointless IMO...

"I lie down next to an angel, fall asleep and fly with the demons"
I once prayed to god for some planets, but quickly found out he didnt work that way

16

Re: SD Market

^ from my post, still selling octa at 18 gives a great profit, but hey, building OCs is way more expensive than CFs, and the space it takes, but anyway, to avoid this situation, SLIGHT changes is the solution, so when everybody starts selling octa, it goes down slightly after 5 tics, and the profit is lessen as the round advances  (or it gets balanced when someone has to buy octa urgently for a wizzie jump)

Re: SD Market

I think weve all agreed that this current market had unforseen effects, but i really do think that for once people actually had to adapt to something new, wich is a very good thing, and its been years since IC was like that really..

The round still has some time left, and with two big families theres still some action to be had imo

LORD HELP OREGON

Re: SD Market

If everyone knew the market was going to do that, and that in order to play in the galaxy you'd need to use the market in that manner, then sure, it may have been good.
As a trial, we saw that some people clued in faster than others, and those that did got a jumpstart which, if properly managed, couldn't be overtaken.

Food spikes, everyone sells food.  It doesn't sell out, the price doesn't drop, everyone wins.  Those that bought food at a tenth of the price for several days win more, and take that extra into the next spike, and so on.
It only exaggerates the natural differences in growth that you expect, but it does so exponentially, and much faster.

Can you imagine such a market in a galaxy with aid?  You'd have million nw fleets within a week.  Might make for a very quick and interesting round.

I really didn't want this round to be about adapting to something new, I wanted it to be about adapting to an old and unused style of play that wasn't about being told what to do by the family growth strategist, but about individual skill, empire management, and activity.
I feel it's been ruined by free money from the market.  Even if other people have used it, chances are you have more.  What is disconcerting, is that you don't have to have a large empire to have a huge stockpile.  Beyond a certain point you don't need an income base, just cash/resources on hand.  Just sit on it and grow the fund until someone pokes you, and turn it into fleet and poke back harder.  Might be funny, but I don't like the idea at all.

Playing the market in a traditional sense takes skill to make profit, I'm okay with that.  This doesn't take skill, it just takes an awareness of the fact it's happening.  Don't approve.  Simple.

This used to be the best signature ever, but after several years, a mod noticed it had a swear in it, and removed it.  I am happy to see they are paying attention.

Re: SD Market

I think the market is fine. Someone already built a huge fleet, tried to stockpile savings, and got burnt by the fact that the market never went higher, so eventually disband and deleted. So there's some skill between growth you can sustain, and just simply playing the market.

Also, if the price went up or down 10-15% every 5 ticks, it would make no difference. Right now it's about patience and waiting for the highs and lows, which may not come for 2 days anyways. I.E. I personally waited 4 days for Oct to drop so that I could buy it up, then another 2 days for it to rise. If you increase or decrease the price every 5 ticks, it's basically the same thing that's going on right now.

"The market is like a.....game within a game Teddy"

20

Re: SD Market

Spam do you realise that's not what Imperial Conflict is suposed to be ?? There's no skills in being lucky to catch the market at ur convenience when others aren't online.

If I would want to play something like that I'd choose Monopoly, not IC  tongue

Re: SD Market

what if the market kept track of input? if a lot of resources were sold then there is an increased chance it will drop the next tic? by 5-10% ofc. this would limit the ability to sit at a % of prices that the market will tend to rest at

22 (edited by Spam 07-Oct-2011 18:23:54)

Re: SD Market

Render I've played since the start of IC and I've seen people dominate entire galaxies using the market, so what's going on in SD is no different than anywhere else. You could sit on 1 planet and play market for the entire round and dominate anywhere, and it's already been done. New rules were applied like decay and market fees, disbanding, all to try and keep people from doing that, but it doesn't matter. It's the fact that nobody has the patience for it anymore. The market is even, and if anything, it just speeds up what was going to happen anyways. It all involves patience and timing, of which you obviously don't have enough of. If you can't be active enough to win, using the rules that we decided upon, don't play and stop complaining about it. Go play your DSi, while the rest of us play by what rules were set forth. My 5 year old needs a challenger in Mario Kart if you're interested....

"The market is like a.....game within a game Teddy"

Re: SD Market

> Spam wrote:

>  My 5 year old needs a challenger in Mario Kart if your interested....


*you're imbho tbfbfbfbfbh lolol tongue X( smile

Re: SD Market

i don't see why people are complaining so much. this market has made for a lot of wars and massive jumps that have made it so much more exciting. and a load more strategies. i think its an awesome mistake, yes its based down to luck/activity, but it still has made for a lot of fun wars and more wars to come!

25

Re: SD Market

market=available to anyone

so don't complain

I swear noir had S&P working for him because what he did is actually pretty amazing. I can see it happening  yes, but to make it happen is completely different.

*you get beat by a pax oh shit should have took more magic
*you get beat by a camaar oh shit should have took more attack and speed
*you get beat by a player capitilizing on the market oh shit you should have been studying the market also