1

(32 replies, posted in Politics)

As I said in the other thread, Snowden is an idiot. People should understand that the foundation of politics is "The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." All our cherished values and institutions such as human right, equality, democracy, and world peace are mere shadows on the wall. Snowden is the fool who thought the shadows were real, who then hurt himself and those he loved because he couldn't handle the truth. He's no different from the idiots who die for Allah.

2

(12 replies, posted in Politics)

I don't care what the supreme court says. It's no longer a legitimate institution.

In fact, our entire government is no longer legitimate. They are no different from pirates and mobsters. My only "loyalty" is to do the minimum to keep that mafia off my back.

3

(12 replies, posted in Politics)

No, gay marriage does affect me. By expanding the franchise, it entrenches women and their sex cartel (marriage) even further. Instead, marriage ought to be abolished, and people who have weddings should be arrested for prostitution.

4

(3 replies, posted in Politics)

I think he should be PM of Italy again.

5

(17 replies, posted in Politics)

[Insults not allowed]. Nobody can change the fact that "The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." Thucydides described politics perfectly well, and his quote is the basis of all meaningful political theory.

However, that won't stop other powers from using him to discredit the moral rhetoric said by the West, and Putin especially loves showing the West just how hypocritical they are. What can I say? Putin is a cynic.

6

(37 replies, posted in Politics)

Xeno wrote:

"Circular reasoning. How is this true?"

Everything we hold to be 'true' is determined as such through circular reasoning.

LOL! Sorry Xeno, but your Moses-style proclamation isn't going to convince rational and skeptical people.

7

(37 replies, posted in Politics)

Xeno wrote:

All human life, regardless of social status, wealth, etc., is of equal value, and this is universally true in the same sense that 1+1=2 is universally true.

Circular reasoning. How is this true?

Personally, I think human life has no value. If all human life is of equal value, then all human life is equally of no value.

The Yell wrote:

Glad you think so.  Shut up and get in the boxcar.

No, you get in the boxcar smile.

8

(17 replies, posted in Politics)

The path forward is to make me autocrat of the world. I'll fix everything, no worries.

Key is captain of the imperial guard, so you can all have insurance that I won't go all corrupt on you.

9

(7 replies, posted in Politics)

Do Belgians have sex scandals?

10

(7 replies, posted in Politics)

Sounds like a good idea. It's atrocious to force a terminally ill child to live.

11

(17 replies, posted in Politics)

The Yell wrote:

shoulda coulda woulda, they tried that in 1922 and  they weren't up to the job

Well, the Brits betrayed them. You know, their "Balance of power" crap. The Greeks were whooping the Turks until they ran out of money.

12

(17 replies, posted in Politics)

Constantinople should belong to Greece.

13

(37 replies, posted in Politics)

Xeno,

All human life is equally valuable, and you know this apriori? Sounds like you don't have an argument, so you say something that amounts to "Because God said so!"

14

(10 replies, posted in Politics)

We need to cut educuation spending. Too many working class people in schools, who then drop out. Higher education should only be accessible to the wealthiest 30%.

15

(13 replies, posted in Politics)

Hey guys, in case you haven't noticed, this forum is dead.

16

(26 replies, posted in Politics)

Pope Francis

17

(26 replies, posted in Politics)

Yell, are you saying you want the Pope to be ruler of the US?

18

(26 replies, posted in Politics)

I 100% understand this. Where I live, Pentecostal Churches have lately been pushing the envelope on political speech.

19

(56 replies, posted in Politics)

The Yell wrote:

I'm sure all the people killed with hammers and knives die thinking "at least I wasn't shot with a .223"

Is that a criticism to my argument?

20

(56 replies, posted in Politics)

You know, the U.S. may have higher gun-related deaths than some countries that prohibit gun ownership, but I like having the freedom to gun ownership. With proper regulation, I think the higher death risk is acceptable. This left logic of "must eliminate all chances of x happening" is unrealistic and it is an excuse to unjustly restrict freedom.

From 2010 statistics, the U.S. had 11,078 gun-related homicides and 19,392 gun-related suicides.

Big picture: that hardly justifies taking away our freedom to own guns. With this logic, lets stop traffic-related deaths by outlawing motorized vehicles. Moreover, you're more likely to die by unintentionally poisoning yourself than you are by being a victim of a gun-related homicide.

The risk is acceptable, now go away.

Source:
http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/1 … 2010-a.pdf

21

(32 replies, posted in Politics)

The Great Eye wrote:

I'm just going to summarize everything and say "Come up with a better rule."

When you post a blanket statement, then every response is "Well, I don't want to exclude X, but I want to exclude Y," and given the wording if your statement, it's perfectly reasonable for someone to understand your statement as including X, the problem is with the way you're phrasing your rule.  Hell, everyone in this thread may be 100% on the same page in terms of what they believe, but are being screwed up by bad definitions of advocacy.  tongue

I have no problem acknowledging that my rules require revision or clarification as you good folks poke holes in them.

22

(32 replies, posted in Politics)

The Great Eye wrote:

You do realize that is a WAY higher standard than any current legal requirement for legislation, secular or otherwise?  Hell... what piece of legislation DOESN'T interfere with civil rights, considering that the US recognizes such rights as the right to property?

True, but it's not as high as you think. What I meant by violating civil rights are laws that have resulted from, for example, a politician chanting the "tough on crime" line. As a result, laws are passed against victimless crimes, and sometimes public shaming is allowed for the accused of certain crimes before they are found guilty. Of course, I have nothing against criminals being deprived of their freedom when they should be incarcerated for the general protection of society.


BeoWolfe wrote:

Ah, I agree as far as the "coerce or pressure others to participate" shouldn't happen.  But you are painting with a broad brush here.  An example would be in Utah where if you are not part of the Mormon church you are excommunicated from the community or worse...(google Warren Jeffs for more info).  This is an obvious case of religion being used for wrong doing.

There is a difference between this and some one handing you a pamphlet about Jesus in public.  Or a family praying before they at a public restaurant.  I am unaware of there being a large problem of religious discrimination in the workplace, I am under the opinion that if some gets fired for their beliefs that a small army of lawyers then show up and sue the company into the dirt.

Well, I have nothing against religious organizations handing out pamphlets or families praying for dinner. In these cases, there are no unjust consequences to my life. But when, say, a business manager calls his employees to come together and pray before lunch, then my refusal to participate will likely result in me facing unjust consequences.


"allow such public establishments to host religious activities in public spaces."

I have to disagree with you here.  Why can hate groups like the KKK hold activities in public places like court house steps yet  the local church can't be allowed?  Public places are... well public - anyone can use them.

"2. Government funding of religiously-inspired and unscientific policies such as abstinence only education."

Well, I meant something more like the government decides to fund and pay for a huge Christmas festival at public square. Not that I don't mind if an independent organization rents the use of a public facility, provided other groups were allowed to fairly compete for that public space.

I am not sure what is unscientific about not having sex leads to fewer unplanned pregnancies and the spread of STDs.  I would think the other school of thought that if you just throw on a condom then there are will be no consequences to having sex would be a bit more risky.

I agree that we don't want to teach young people that they won't risk STIs if they are slutty just because they use condoms. I think it's important to tell them that they should limit sexual activity to exclusive long-term relationships, and I also believe they should receive accurate information on STIs.

What's dumb is not giving them accurate information on STIs and thinking that telling them about the virtues of virginity and marriage is going to work. And moreover, it's government favoritism because it promotes religious concepts such as "marriage" and "purity." Btw, yes, I am in favor of abolishing marriage as an institution recognized by the state, but I am okay with replacing it with a concept like "civil partnership."

23

(32 replies, posted in Politics)

The Great Eye wrote:

So... you are no longer advocating the prohibition of people from using religious arguments in a political context?  Cause that was very clearly a statement you advocated in your 2nd post (the one where you clarified your opinion).

I guess that's fine, provided it's not hate speech. However, no legislation would be passed unless:

1. The law served a public interest and did not violate anyone's civil rights.
2. The arguments for (1) were supported by scientific evidence.

24

(32 replies, posted in Politics)

@Yell,

1. The U.S. founders were flawed human beings who weren't omniscient or divinely gifted, and like humans, they often contradicted their own principles by shoving them under the rug, which later became enshrined in precedent.

2. While National Socialism isn't a religion per se, it was not scientific and it had a lot of the same faith-based qualities of religion.

@BeoWolfe,

Keep in mind that I later revised my statement to "regulate religious expression in public spaces," because I realized that I was too hasty in my conclusion.

No, an afterlife does not scare me. For me to accept a belief, it must satisfy the following conditions:

1. Logically consistent
2. Coherent with our best empirical knowledge
3. Empirically testable
4. Parsimonious

Since religious beliefs badly fail these conditions, I reject all religious beliefs. Of course, that doesn't mean you can't express your religious beliefs. What you can't do is coerce or pressure others to participate in religious activities in public establishments (business, education and government), discriminate against people based on their religion in public establishments, have the state benefit or contract with religious institutions, or allow such public establishments to host religious activities in public spaces.

Other objectionable things that need to be dealt with are:

1. Religious politicians and leaders who call Atheists or Muslims evil or un-American.
2. Government funding of religiously-inspired and unscientific policies such as abstinence only education.

25

(32 replies, posted in Politics)

Alundra wrote:

what hostility? the hostility that you are showing right now?
just because u are not religous doesnt give u the right to silence all religion because YOU dont want to hear about it.

Think of your arguement from both sides, Why should people of religous nature put up with your kind? you see you are being openly athiest, which btw if u never noticed is a group of people who band together because of god, whoops total religion yikes.

Your points are completely invalid, u cannot ask for people to give up their beliefs especially when your arguement is your own beliefs.

Unless u can say something on your point that actually makes sense then your opinion needs ALOT more thought tongue

The reason why my points don't make sense to you is because you are interpreting what you want to hear. For example, I did not say that religions should be silenced or that religious people should be forced to give up their beliefs.

And, I am sure you would feel that society was making it mandatory to be Muslim if you lived in a Muslim country where Islam was casually expressed and exercised at work. That's how atheists feel in the U.S... that it's mandatory to be Christian, at least if you want to be treated as human and assessed on the basis of your merits.

The Great Eye wrote:

Okay... wait... what's with the strawman argument?  Your OP was clearly about prohibiting the religious expression entirely.  In particular, my discussion was directed at your second post, which directly attacked religious argumentation in a political context.  I thought that was pretty damn obvious.  Stopping work to pray 5 times a day is completely unrelated to the political context argument, which my line of argumentation was clearly based upon.

Well, I wasn't thinking in my first post, so I revise it to "regulate religious expression in public spheres." I believe it is wrong for religious membership to be defacto mandatory to fairly participate in political and economic spaces. So to keep these spaces free from religious coercion, it is necessary to regulate religious expression in public spaces.