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Imperial Forum → Politics → What's so civil about civilization?
I don't think civilization is really all that civil. When you really unpack the issues, the impacts, peoples' agendas, motivations, etc., one sees barbarity underlying virtually every facet of contemporary civilization.
Seriously. I challenge anyone to name one thing that you think is 'civil' about civilization.
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We already know humans are the scum of the earth lol, what of it?
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America's history a fine example of the excellence of this system of civilization based upon limited government and individual rights. (Imperfect as it's been) The nations with the authoritarian controls you advocate are all fine examples of how pathetic life is under the systems you support.
What you take out on "civilization" is human nature.
You're just whining about human nature and systems which actually work because they take it into account.
You're just crying because you wish some communistic system for robots worked for mankind, and you're pissy because it doesn't.
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Only relatively free systems like Canada's produce enough wealth that some can be taxed to support bums like you without collapsing the system. (And if such systems were more efficient, less corrupt, more resulted-oriented, and less abused, they'd help people even more for less taxation)
[insult].
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"You're just crying because you wish some communistic system for robots worked for mankind, and you're pissy because it doesn't."
Hmm... nice idea, Kemp.
Robots working for mankind, while humans focus on improving their nature and the environment.
I like it.
We already know humans are the scum of the earth lol, what of it?
I think that is the first step. It's not enough to simply understand our depravity. It's what we do with this understanding that matters.
The problem is that we do the opposite. We create illusions / delusions of civility, and entrap ourselves by them, essentially sabotaging our potential, both as individuals and as a "civilization".
Civilization is not one whole group of people, It is split into lots of smaller civilizations, and the smaller civilizations are split again and again,each having thir own unique traits and opinions, and each of these groups abide by their own social rules, and object to other social groups rules and understanging, thus being civil to each other but not so to others. regardless of how u look at civilization as a whole, their will never be a situation in which every person is civil to every other person, Its just the way it works unfortunatly.
also dont be dissing the robots 
Seriously. I challenge anyone to name one thing that you think is 'civil' about civilization.
I turn my back on everybody else in line, and live
Civilization is not one whole group of people, It is split into lots of smaller civilizations, and the smaller civilizations are split again and again,each having thir own unique traits and opinions, and each of these groups abide by their own social rules, and object to other social groups rules and understanging, thus being civil to each other but not so to others. regardless of how u look at civilization as a whole, their will never be a situation in which every person is civil to every other person, Its just the way it works unfortunatly.
also dont be dissing the robots
Moral relativism - hmmph. 
I like to think there is some sort of objective 'civility', although I can't claim to know what it might be. Universal values such as liberty, justice, equality?
yeah it actually sucks, and I wish I knew the answer too, but I can say that equality isnt a universal truth, since equality cannot be obtained while diversity exists.
We either every single person has to be the same, or every single person has to be different, its not ethical to make everyone the same, and humans by nature are conformists, making it so absolute uniqueness is an impossibility.
I guess tho I can put more info into this in 3 years when I get my sociology degree lol
Seriously. I challenge anyone to name one thing that you think is 'civil' about civilization.
What have the Romans ever done for us:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso
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lol
I can say that equality isnt a universal truth, since equality cannot be obtained while diversity exists.
Equality of the value of human life is a universal truth, regardless of diversity. It is an apriori, essential quality of what it means to be human : that all are born EQUAL.
How is it that this FACT has been forgotten / ignored?
We haven't been born "equals" for over ten thousand years..
We haven't been born "equals" for over ten thousand years..
yeah lol, pretty much as soon as the human race became sentient 
Xeno,
All human life is equally valuable, and you know this apriori? Sounds like you don't have an argument, so you say something that amounts to "Because God said so!"
Xeno,
All human life is equally valuable, and you know this apriori? Sounds like you don't have an argument, so you say something that amounts to "Because God said so!"
All human life, regardless of social status, wealth, etc., is of equal value, and this is universally true in the same sense that 1+1=2 is universally true.
*starts popping the popcorn*
Oh, this should be fun.
Xeno,
All human life is equally valuable, and you know this apriori? Sounds like you don't have an argument, so you say something that amounts to "Because God said so!"
Glad you think so. Shut up and get in the boxcar.
All human life, regardless of social status, wealth, etc., is of equal value, and this is universally true in the same sense that 1+1=2 is universally true.
Circular reasoning. How is this true?
Personally, I think human life has no value. If all human life is of equal value, then all human life is equally of no value.
Glad you think so. Shut up and get in the boxcar.
No, you get in the boxcar .
"Circular reasoning. How is this true?"
Everything we hold to be 'true' is determined as such through circular reasoning.
"Circular reasoning. How is this true?"
Everything we hold to be 'true' is determined as such through circular reasoning.
LOL! Sorry Xeno, but your Moses-style proclamation isn't going to convince rational and skeptical people.
I gave up trying to convince anyone on IC of anything a long, long time ago.
I named something civil about civilization, namely that my fat butt can hold up people for 30 mins and I am not killed for presuming to come first just because I got in line earlier
The queue
Companies make customers wait an amount of time calculated to try our patience just the right amount before we get upset (rather than having enough staff so that customers get through WITHOUT queuing at all), all so they can make profits on the junky products that are available, on which they make ridiculous amounts of profit; products whose production and distribution harms the environment and society, wastes resources, exploits the producer; products which kill us slowly, or manipulate our self image or image of others, or make us physically or psychologically addicted or otherwise dependent on them...
The queue is uncivilized, where people are treated like cattle, led to the slaughter.
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