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Imperial Forum → Posts by Justinian I
> avogadro wrote:
> "
That was just an example, lol. I wonder if you're just getting nick picky now?"
it was an example, but my reaction was just an example and could be used for any profession.>
... Well if you say that few people are computer programmers, ok. But computer programmers are part of the middle class, which is defined by income, where a large number of people are members.
> avogadro wrote:
but the kid could be a lawyer. and you could say on average the kid wont be a lawyer, but on average, the person getting the abortion wouldnt be a future lawyer either.>
That was just an example, lol. I wonder if you're just getting nick picky now?
Anyhow, yes, only around 15% of the population are working professionals. But despite that, an ill prepared woman who has an abortion is more likely to live in poverty (and classes tend to reproduce themselves) if she does not have an abortion, and more likely to live a middle class lifestyle if she is able to post-pone reproduction. Moreover, the class drop is also likely to affect the father and continue in the child. Ultimately, the probably costs saved from welfare and court procedures and the probable increased revenue from more resources invested in to a better career makes abortion a very effective cost cutting measure.
> Avo wrote:
so you're basically saying that 1 person's decrease in producation wont be made up by someone else's entire production on average??>
On a micro level, when exchanging a lawyer for an assembly line worker, the lawyer can easily be replaced. But if you have 32 million more people living in poverty rather than the middle class, then a lot of revenue and business is compromised.
A10/Avo
> A10 wrote:
> >Yeah but you are not considering that orphanages cost money and women generate less $
If babies were a drain on society, then maintaining human existence would be impossible. The average human has to positively contribute or resources would run out and society would fundamentally fail in all possible configurations. While orphanages are expensive, each child is an investment. The average child that comes out of there will contribute enough through taxes or other means to make society self sufficient.>
I know that. Even impoverished people tend to generate more $ than they cost. But I'm talking about opportunity cost. This means that of the opportunity to save a life, less revenue will be generated than if a woman is allowed to invest in a higher paying career and post-pone reproduction.
Yeah but you are not considering that orphanages cost money and women generate less $ when they are in poverty because they have to divert time and resources to their baby, when she could otherwise be investing her time and resources in to acquiring a higher paying career. In other words, the opportunity cost of raising the baby is much higher than investing in a higher paying career.
> avogadro wrote:
> "But yes, killing all people on welfare or senior citizens on social security would also cut costs. However, those methods would not be well received like abortion."
while you can argue that senior citizens on social security and people on welfare drain society, there is nothing that indicates that a fetus that would normally be aborted would be a drain on society if not aborted.>
Well you can probabilistically if you consider that a lot of women who pursue an abortion are motivated by a lack of resources to raise the baby.
> 
sKoE )= wrote:
> > In other words, we can get away with abortion but we can't with many others. If we can get away with something, then why not?
So you believe that hunting animals for sport and killing them should be illegal too?>
I personally don't care. But I wouldn't try that because a lot of people like to hunt, it's an effective method of critter population control, and it generates revenue.
A10,
You kind of brought up the can of worms criticism I already addressed. But there are many hard working liberals, and killing them would probably be more costly than they're worth. But yes, killing all people on welfare or senior citizens on social security would also cut costs. However, those methods would not be well received like abortion.
In other words, we can get away with abortion but we can't with many others. If we can get away with something, then why not?
As for putting a price tag on human beings, yes that's exactly what I'm doing. There's a price tag for everybody. You can measure how many $ a person with generate or consume over a lifetime.
It is true that aborting a fetus prevents an organism that will likely grow in to a human being from ever doing so. But who cares, because it is too costly to society to completely ban abortion (assuming there are some limitations). To those who might argue I am opening a can of worms, I want to reply that abortion is one cost cutting method that has emerged as a popular and institutionalize practice over the years. Other cost-cutting methods would not be well received, and considering tact and what's socially acceptable is important for public policy. Because abortion is an established institution that cuts costs, there's really just no reason to ban it beyond moral beliefs. And I honestly just don't find moral arguments compelling. Likewise, I don't believe women have a right to choose either, because such a claim is not empirically testable. I also don't have patience for hypothesis that aren't empirically testable either.
But, this survey is very important because it brings up an important regularity in how people consider the severity of terminating a human in cell like stages. It just doesn't trigger our empathy and therefore outrage when one is killed like it does when a baby, toddler, youth, teenager, or adult etc is.
Good luck.
Why are you choosing to serve Obama?
There was a time when US conservatives were pragmatic on both domestic and foreign policy, and by pragmatic I mean solution minded and efficient with resources. True to their pragmatism, they tended to be relaxed on social issues (such as abortion and sex etc), careful when making decisions, and promoted a free market. I call this Conservative brand Ford Conservatism because he was the last US president to be one.
But then something ridiculous happened. Reagan came in and all hell broke loose. The Republican party shifted from its earlier pragmatism to be dominated by religious fanatics convinced of America's moral superiority. To illustrate my point, Reagan criticized the very man who embodied pragmatism, Henry Kissinger (a brilliant statesman who ranks with Bismarck), and became infuriated when Kissinger's staff shot down his ridiculous criticisms during one primary election. Barry Goldwater was even disillusioned with the direction the party had taken. The party has since then promoted abstinence education (which has been shown as ineffective), tried to reverse Roe v Wade, been influenced by Evangelical elites, and on several occasions upset the global balance of power in a way that has been costly to the US. The list of non-pragmatic nonsense goes on.
I know I have not gone in to great detail, but I am just bringing some ideas to the front. In my view, the Republican party has taken a wrong path, and this is why those principle trenching (take idealistic considerations above practical ones) and wasteful Democrats have managed to regain power again. The decade's shifting from pragmatism has spelled the downfall of the Republican party, quite frankly because it has lead to unsuccessful and costly outcomes.
I am proud to consider myself a non-Reagan conservative. I am pragmatic, I love science, I believe in evolution, I say keep abortion and sex ed, I think people should be judged by their merit, I want a free-market economy and less government control, I believe the US should ease tensions and try to keep a balance of power, and more importantly I believe religion should stay out of politics.
Can the pragmatic conservatives present a modern image and regain power? Can they give the Reagan conservatives the boot for good?
I hope so, because if not to protect our country from the evil Democrats, to protect us from the evil Reagans.
Only the elite can overthrow Obama, and right now they need him.
> sKoE )= wrote:
> I bet its cheaper in Venezuela 
.>>
I don't know. Here a weekend, for a mid-range escort, would be $3k. From what I can tell, the escorts in impoverished countries would charge high prices as well, because their consumers would be wealthy western visitors or bankers/plantation owners from their own country.
Skoe,
Lol they have that in the US too. In my state too even.
Deci,
I would hope you agree with it. Your country fought a bloody war against those commies.
> Kal-el wrote:
> Still can't understand why this thread is alive, unless too many players on a internet game are racist 139 relies, amazing.
~ Cloud
Go to hell you troll
Seeing as how probable it is Nolio is actually a co worker of his, I'm skeptical.
Eh, culture has no value. Having a value for culture leads to principle trenching, which is the more pathetic than racism.
Culture is a set of learned behaviors and ideas. That means that different people from different cultures practice different things and have different ideas.
We should expose ourselves to new cultures, yes, but only to adapt our observations from other cultures to improve upon our own when it's appropriate. It's a liberal mistake to assign a value to every culture indiscriminately, because some are more useful than others.
> Telstar wrote:
> "Putin was elected.
Chaves was elected.
Saddam was elected......"
BW, do you consider the USA's democracy as feeble as Russia or Iraq? wow!>
I do, lol. America is so obviously a plutocracy these days.
Yeah it is, haha. We grew up in the same area and didn't know it. rofl
Oic. You could have, I don't know. I'm a pretty low-key guy, so I probably wasn't very visible.
Naw you didn't. The youngest people I talked to were the junior girls who spoiled me in exchange for academic help.
2005 lol
Zomg! This is getting so weired. I did too.
True, they were dry. Great guy though.
So did you go to AHS too?
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