Yeah i know flashy. it's the hard way though

Vote on 'Do you want to allow outside NAPs for the rest of the round?'!

Changing the rules during the round? no plz. Leave it as it is and change it before next round.

I'm not in there just noticed this. sneaky!

> Lee wrote:

> u can still have a core agreement within a CF.

if the galaxy was bigger then yeh no naps but even still how do u end a war, seems flawed.

lets add core clauses...
maybe add a 48h notice clause as well... or possibly 72h, maybe make it permanent...
then we might as well add swap outs and a compensation clause...
maybe we should add an ingame system that prevents fams from attacking each other...

i call it the 48h cf, the 72h cf and the perm cf!

"the average salary Bladenosh showed is even without the people who do not exist officially but sure are there. This is a very large amount of people. Its only a question how great an amount will die off or will live."
Same goes for the US with the illegals. Though it is less, obviously.

"China's domestic market isn't growing very fast. In fact its the exact opposite compared to their export. If it did, it would be devastating for world economy as there are not enough resources or farm outputs to feed the meat eating Chinese."
China is actually working towards getting enough resources and farms, by competing with the US for them. Yes, there aren't enough resources and farms to feed both the US and China. This may be another reason for US downfall as US contacts with producing countries in the 3rd world decline and those of China are improving (for instance Columbia, where China is now building railroads to replace the panama channel).

"At this moment china is getting rich in dollars mainly. If US econ collapses, EU and Chinas will as well. It will only cause unrest. It will not happen anytime soon.

China would wan't to buy eg euro's but if they do, the US dollar collapses and with it the stock markets. Their euro's wouldn't be worth anything then. If they keep the dollar, they will go down if US goes down."

Yes, that is the main problem. When the US market collapses, markets worldwide will collapse. Even though it didn't show as much in the recent financial crisis (countries such as Brasil who have been growth powerhouses kept growing), I do believe that when the US does collapse it will have a greater impact.
However, the system the US maintains at this moment will collapse some time in the future. But that'd be about how a free market works: an entirely different discussion.

China could easily feed itself by intesifying its agriculture and making it more efficient. This would of course cause a lot of urbanization and ruin the lives of farmers. Furthermore China is the main producer for North Korea: this costs them a lot of food that they could use for themselves. If China decides to drop North Korea as its ally it could keep the food for itself.

About the literacy: yes, that's what i mentioned myself.

The point does not remain, it's 2 very different situations that cannot be compared to each other.

Yes, China's economy is still relying on the US. However, as I have stated many, many times, China is working on it's domestic market, in an attempt to make it's economy rely less on the US..... And in a way, the US is reliant on China for cheap goods.
However, they also compete with each other for raw recourses. And as it is, China may actually be winning this: as the US is losing it's grip on the 3rd world countries that produce most recourses, China is actually making agreements with them and forging bonds.

And yes I am aware that there is a huge gap between those who own factories and those who work in factories, or even worse: the farmers. However, as has been mentioned by others, salaries cannot be kept low (especially if they want to grow their domestic market).  Some people even argue it may cause civil unrest as the middle class starts to grow, due to cultural differences and growing need for human rights. Nevertheless, their middle class will grow. The situation as it is may be bad but it will improve, whilest the situation in the US is only degrading due to the financial crisis of the last decade.

In regards to your numbers:
China's GDP is rising quickly while America's GDP is stagnant (relatively).
Salary has to be seen in relation to prices. Prices in China in lower. (However there is still more poor people in China, that is true).
Literacy rate does not ensure a good job. It does help though. Have you, however, read a recent article in Time Magazine? It compared scores students got on math and spelling (if i recall) with each other. I'll try to find it later and edit it in. It had a very interesting graph that you might wanna have a look at.

China is growing, and that may not be good for us. You are a fool if you think it will somehow NOT topple America. It does desire to. Economics is symbiotic but China is trying to go on on itself.

You think there's gonna be another revolution? And one problem, in the revolution the US defeated the English to gain control of their land (and this was not only due to high taxes or debts, there were several reasons), I don't see them defeating China as easily if there's a war, and the motifs would be different. It'd be a slaughter and not quite politically correct.
The Netherlands, or the United Dutch Provinces, were already in decline when the US emerged. China, on the other hand, is emerging at this moment as the US is declining. I do not see the point of comparing debts to the United Dutch Provinces to debts to China.

Comparing the US debts in present times to their debts in the past... that's one half-assed comparison.

Distribution of wealth in China? First of all, as I've said China is workign on it's domestic market which will probably result in a larger middle class. Secondly, have you seen the distribution of wealth in the US? Yes, it's not as bad as in China, but in China the situation is actually becoming better (gap between rich and poor closing a little, or at least looking like it will) whilest in the US it's getting worse (gap becoming bigger).

History class? No thanks.

What I mean is, the US has a lot of power. It has gained this power in the past, and for the time being it still remains in power. This power, however, may disappear very suddenly, as the US has become too dependent on other countries, going even to the point where China owns the majority of US debt.

However, as it still has power in this time and has a lot of countries following them mindlessly (UK, Netherlands, etc. basically Europe as a whole except for perhaps France, for its own reasons), it can still enforce it's influence. It also has a very strong military, as it has attempted to show in the last decade by invading Iraq and Afghanistan.

So as it is now, the US can influence international law as it wants. However, this may change soon: when China's domestic market grows enough so that it can support itself instead of having to export cheap goods (if it does not succumb to riots and revolutions), China will most definitely start to become more assertive/agressive. This can become a very dangerous situation for the US, due to China basically owning US debt.
What does a bank do when you're in a lot of debt and not able to repay it? It starts to repossess your properties.

You argue that China will not be able to repossess US properties, because the debt is only an agreement and the US could just choose to ignore that agreement. However, I think that by that time US alliance with other countries will have weakened (due to a stronger China) and the US will not be able to afford said agreement, as it would just expose how hypocritical the US is and how others cannot trust it, causing it to lose even more allies. That would weaken the US's power even further.

This way the US will effectively selfdestruct due to its large debt and who it owes this debt to.

gl flashy!

enforcer of law and order --> Afghanistan, where they went to kick Taliban ass because the Taliban didn't want to help the US in their fight against Al Qaida. They went to Afghanistan to enforce laws and a government that would not safeharbour Al Qaida. They went to Afghanistan to enforce their (US) law. Besides, it's a metaphor.

Furthermore I do not think China is going to crash any time soon. Some people argue they have a housing bubble that's about to blow up, similar to what happened in the US. However we saw how China got through the last financial crisis, becoming the new motor of the world economy. This bubble bursting might not have that big of an effect, if it does burst.

With China owning most of US debt I doubt they would let the US declare bankruptcy as easily as Americans are able to do in their system, China would start repossessing everything the US owns... See it as the big bank (china) taking the house of the idiot with the huge debt (US).

Bankruptcy would be the end of the US.

Awesome! I've always wanted Fleet boss on chrome cuz firefox just is shit

thanks man, i'll dl it later.

EDIT: Dl'ed it, works perfectly .