Does what?  Jeez, you suck at this game, The_Yell!

Flint, tell the n00by how to play the game!

Agreed with Simon.  As it is, you're talking in such an abstract manner that it may be difficult for people to understand the type of scenarios you want us to be considering.  This is the second time I've had an issue with the question with the response being a clarification of the question.  Frankly, I'm still not sure how we were supposed to derive that "Which has a greater effect on societies?  Discuss" was supposed to be a question about the sociological effects in relation to the question framing you established with your initial question.  In short, I'm still confuzzled. 

Simple answer as of yet: I will not participate because the question is framed to create a pre-determined identification of each entity.

Simply put, the question constructs a negative connotation with the assumption that government is constructed to control technology.  That's simply untrue.  If it was, SOPA wouldn't have even been an issue because the US would have never released the internet.

Government does have a role in "controlling" technology.  But more often than not, its form of "control" is an effort to encourage the expansion of technology (remember the SOPA thread?).  Exceptions to this rule, such as nuclear weapons technology, are more often than not technologies which have an overwhelmingly dangerous impact if made widespread.

The question is then flawed because it assumes all growth of technology is a conflict with government interests.  That's simply not the case.  Now, if you want to talk about specific technologies which the government attempts to control, such as nuclear and biological weapons technology, then we have a legitimate frame of comparison.  However, as it stands, the question is overly generalized to the point of not reflecting the status quo.

Disturbing...

Don't answer that, Banksy!

He normally catches, so he's really out of practice.  Isn't that right, Flint?

> xeno syndicated wrote:

> "politics IS a form of technology"

Yes, this is kind of the point.  If politics is one technology, which, just like other technologies, begets other technologies, which, then, has more of an effect? The technology 'Politics' or all other technologies besides politics?  The question is really asking, is 'politics' the one technology out there that affects society above and beyond all other technologies combined?

There's still the overriding issue that politics and technology are interdependent.  Thus, you can't ask if X has a bigger influence on Z than Y's influence on Z because X is defined by Y and Y is defined by X, so if I say that X has a bigger influence, it's in part because of the influence of Y, which is then partially a result of the influence of X.

Short answer: You can't compare the two as if they're mutually exclusive because each depends on the other.

Politics influences technology by creating atmospheres conductive to the pace and direction of advancement in said technology (i.e., increased labor specialization, laws to encourage technology advancement, etc).  Thus, even when technology effects society, it is often because the technology is a result of the politics.

But at the same time, technology changes the politics, changing society.  Every instance of one military being technologically superior to another is an instance of technology reshaping the political field, changing the society.  More recently, the internet has had an insane amount of political influence.  However, once again, that technology was only around because the US funded the internet's development as a military communication system.

In short, it's a flawed question.  You can't ask which independent variable had a bigger impact on a dependent variable when both independent variables are then dependent variables on one another.

Alternatively, I could say you are creating a false dichotomy because politics IS a form of technology (in that, just as the assembly line was considered an advance in technology by advancing the way individuals organize with one another to increase productivity, the creation and advancement of government advances the way individuals organize with one another to increase productivity).

Zarf isn't here right now.  Please leave a message after the beep. BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!

If you have any further inquiries, please redirect your call to Wornstrum.

We'd rather not think about it.

Although Wornstrum could probably tell what he would do better than any of us...

We'll forum block you when someone figures out how the interface works. 

Okay... this is the point where I need to invoke the "be nice, everyone" thing.