1 (edited by ☭ Fokker 05-May-2008 17:25:59)

Topic: [BBC] Why are girls fighting like boys?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7380400.stm

<<The sight of two girls having a post-pub fight still has the power to shock, although it often happens between men. Why are women doing it and why are we so offended by it?[/B]

"I've beaten a boy up with a stiletto high heel and left him unconscious," says one 17-year-old.

"I got locked up last year for putting a woman in a coma and she nearly died because I tried to throw her in front of a car," says another. "Then in October I got out from a sentence for nearly running a woman over."

That these words are uttered by teenage girls is somehow more shocking than if they were said by young men.

According to the annual statistics of the Youth Justice Board, the number of violent offences committed by girls aged 10 to 17 has nearly doubled in three years.

In 2002/3, there were 8,702 girls convicted of violence against another person, a figure that rose to 15,525 in 2005/6. During that period the number committed by boys rose 50% to 39,136.

There have been some high-profile examples. In 2005, there was widespread disgust during the trial of four youths who kicked to death a barman on London's South Bank.

The court was told that Chelsea O'Mahoney, 15 at the time, had filmed the attack on her phone and delivered the last kick "like a football" to Mr Morley's head.

The following year Claire Marsh, 18, became one of the youngest women to be convicted of rape, after pinning down another woman and encouraging a gang to participate in the assault in west London.


In a scrap

These reports still jolt society in a post-feminist age, partly because they are so rare and partly because women are not expected to be aggressive.

For a group of teenage girls in south London aged 16 to 18, interviewed by Radio 1Xtra, violence is a part of everyday life.

"Girl on girl fighting, scrapping, it's become the norm now," says one.

It's usually based on territory, they say, and happens between their all-female group and other groups of girls from different estates, often preceded by verbal sparring, rumour and gossip.

They usually just use fists, but have known bottles, knives and even pieces of wood to be brandished. Binge drinking and drugs are the main reasons they give for getting physical.

One teenager with 20 violent offences to her name says: "It's only when I've had a drink and I think I'm on top of the world and I think I can take on everybody. I know I shouldn't but I can't help myself when I've had a drink."

A police report last week suggests that the number of women arrested for being drunk and disorderly has increased by more than 50% in parts of the UK in the past five years.

Offenders at New Hall female prison in West Yorkshire say they used to get into fights to impress older boys. And one talks about the adrenaline release of fighting: "Even when I get hit myself I get a rush from it."


'No shame'

But Victim Support says the main underlying reason for this aggression is people growing up in violent homes or suffering abuse at the hands of a partner.

A study by criminologist Susan Batchelor, of the University of Glasgow contradicts previous thinking that unlike in men, for women it's a spontaneous lack of control for which they afterwards felt ashamed.

Her report suggests female displays of aggression have a function within a group.

"Such violence was considered deeply meaningful; it served to maintain group solidarity, reinforce friendships, affirm allegiances, and enhance personal status within the group."

The peer group always plays a large part in it, says consultant clinical psychologist Elie Godsi, author of Violence and Society: Making Sense of Madness and Badness.

"There's a lot more of a 'ladette' culture where young women are aping and mimicking the traditional behaviour young men engage in.

"So there's a small element of that, although I wouldn't put too much [importance] on it."

Many young people feel alienated from their family and community, he says, so the peer group plays a big part in gang culture, causing behaviour that the individual on her own would not contemplate.

But it's important to remember that overall, women only commit 10% of violent crimes, he says.

They are innately less aggressive, whether by nature or nurture, which is why society reacts so strongly to it.

"Women are defined in terms of relationships - as mothers, daughters, wives - and men are defined as individuals, in terms of achievements or work status or what they do, rather than how they relate to each other.

"So violent women are perceived in far worst terms and it takes more for them to be violent.

"But you only have to look at how Myra Hindley was treated as an icon. A lot more men are far more violent than her and given far lighter sentences. Generally we perceive women who don't fit into traditional roles in extreme terms."

Mr Godsi believes the increase in female violence merely reflects the general rise in violence since the mid-80s.

And the reasons for it - more destructive households and more alcohol abuse - are not peculiar to women.

So we shouldn't necessarily be looking for reasons behind female aggression, he says, but asking why society as a whole seems to be tacitly encouraging violence.>>



The title is a massive misnomer in my opinion, and the answer to it is obvious (again in my opinion): Welcome to the age of equality.

As for the true content of the article, I don't think this is a new problem, I think it has simply become easier, more acceptable, for people to express themselves in this way.

I also think that this nanny-state is partly to blame, ten years ago (when I was a lad!) you could still expect a good smack from PC Plod for such behaviours... actually you were lucky if you were still conscious by the time you got to the cells, but potato/tomato yeah?

The problem for me here is that I know [I]something[/I] is wrong but I can't really say what, or why, possibly because I had the same kind of upbringing as some of, if not most of, the girls this article seems to focus on, with similar results.

Whatever happened to the good old days when girls with issues became sluts?

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."

Re: [BBC] Why are girls fighting like boys?

Why are girls fighting like boys?

Because they can.

"Whatever happened to the good old days when girls with issues became sluts?"

Amen to that.

Personally I don't think women will ever truly fight like men.  I've yet to see a woman take a baseball bat (aluminum) to the head and come back asking for more.  When that happens I'll concede women are fighting like men.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re: [BBC] Why are girls fighting like boys?

I've yet to see a man do that...

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."

Re: [BBC] Why are girls fighting like boys?

I doubt we will ever see a man do that

Frenzy
My President is black, infact hes half white so even in a racist mind hes half right wink

Re: [BBC] Why are girls fighting like boys?

ahahahah I had written a totally outrageous post that I konw I sohlund bost , so i didnt hahahaha

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sdffdgjfhjdfhgjhsfsdfqgsbsthzgflqkcgjhkgfjnbkmzghkmqrghqmskdghqkmsghnvhdf
qmkjghqmksdjqlskhqkmsdhqmskfhjqmskjdfhqkmsdfjhqmskfhjqkmsjdfhqkm
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kjnqsdfqsdfqsdfmkjqhgmkjnqsgkjmhzdflmghjsmdlghjsmdkghmqksdjghq

Re: [BBC] Why are girls fighting like boys?

Take ur drunken ass to General:)

Frenzy
My President is black, infact hes half white so even in a racist mind hes half right wink

7 (edited by TheYell 05-May-2008 22:41:05)

Re: [BBC] Why are girls fighting like boys?

hmm, perhaps I should alter my Euro vacation plans a bit

now I guess I'll have to find some gals in a pub and ask "Hey, I hear you bitches think you can fight"

mm better not, one might be Springy

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: [BBC] Why are girls fighting like boys?

"I've yet to see a man do that..."

What kind of sissies do you know?  Just kidding.  I come from a family that's tough as nails and highly agressive.  My brother is the one I saw take an aluminum bat to the head and keep going.  Family reunions quickly become boxing tournaments it's just how we bond.  So my view is slightly biased, however my conclusion remains.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re: [BBC] Why are girls fighting like boys?

lol obviously the person hitting him in the head didnt have a strong enough swing...

you hit any one in the head with a bat and they will fall..

.... red necks ?? ...

Re: [BBC] Why are girls fighting like boys?

only one further step into our all misery... emancipation...

11 (edited by Gwynedd 20-Jun-2008 00:37:58)

Re: [BBC] Why are girls fighting like boys?

Yeah most ppl go down after being hit...Unless the guy thats hitting them is  a complete [Push me up against the wall] and is most likely  a women dressed as a man.... So that really answers ur question if a women was fighting like a man her baseball bat shot would be less painfull:D tongue

Frenzy
My President is black, infact hes half white so even in a racist mind hes half right wink

Re: [BBC] Why are girls fighting like boys?

lol maybe the bat was just so hollow that it didn't do anything?

Anyways, girls do get aggressive sometimes. I saw a girl get in a fight at high school and cut the other girl up with a razor blade that she had tucked in her mouth. It's just not so common we see these things because it's us guys who get crazy, competitive and all that good stuff.

Sex without the e is still SX!

Re: [BBC] Why are girls fighting like boys?

> cut the other girl up with a razor blade that she had tucked in her mouth

That's horrible.

Morbo: Morbo can't understand his teleprompter. He forgot how you say that letter that looks like a man with a hat.
Linda: It's a 't'. It goes "tuh".
Morbo: Hello, little man. I will destroy you!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpP7b2lUxVE

Re: [BBC] Why are girls fighting like boys?

I personally don't understand it. Since the dawn of time women have chosen the less violent path to destroy their enemies, by way of bitching, back biting and turning others against them in a slower, crueller sustained campaign of victimising the person. Obviously this won't break your neck or give you a black eye, but I think we've all witnessed this kind of behaviour ruining people's lives. It is subtler and less detectable than outright punching someone, in some ways kinda making it harsher, as it often, so easily, goes unnoticed.
(Here I'm referring to comparision with girls fighting, kicking and slapping and punching one another, not the extremely violent crimes like going after someone with a kitchen knife or shooting them)

To me it seems like a bit of a backwards step, reverting the the far less calculated and intelligent male way of doing business

[i]Tommy gun

Re: [BBC] Why are girls fighting like boys?

"reverting the the far less calculated and intelligent male way of doing business"

Say what you will it's efficient.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.