Topic: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

If Scotland declared independence from the UK, do you think the USA recognise Scotland?

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

a better question would be why the hell would they recognise it?

Confirmation is for sissies and altar boys.

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

If Scotland just got up and declared independence, and the rest of the UK resented it, then no. It would be diplomatically costly for the US. Besides, crushing the Scots is easy.

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

Why isn't Scotland independant?

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

If it were still in the EU what's the difference?

I think London's reaction would be decisive.

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Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

Xeno,

Because one day Queen Elizabeth I died without an heir, and the Scotish king just happened to be the closest relative of Elizabeth I. With all the animosities between the two states, the Scots allowed him to rule both countries because the English were much richer than they were. This lead to Scotland being integrated with England.

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

sumthing like that

I was using a metaphor that means God is watching us. You've heard this, there's a toilet on the roof.

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

That, and they got their butts kicked by an English army anytime they called a Do-Over

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

@justinian,
you are forgetting one factor. Public opinion might or might not, turn in their favor.

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

"Because one day Queen Elizabeth I died without an heir, and the Scotish king just happened to be the closest relative of Elizabeth I. With all the animosities between the two states, the Scots allowed him to rule both countries because the English were much richer than they were. This lead to Scotland being integrated with England."

Correct, and because of that, they have every right to use their supreme representative body to declare their independence. Scotland should normally be recognised by the UN because of this history (in a strickt way, it's a personal union). I think the EU would even embrace an independent Scotland..

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

@ Yell

the English never actually conquered Scotland. Scotland itself was always too big, too harsh & the Scots too fierce to actually conquer!

In 1707 the English bribed the Scottish parliament to unite the two countries, despite riots in the streets the Bill was passed & Scotland lost its freedom.

Im personally hoping for a Scottish break-away, with a bit of luck it will result in Wales getting its freedom.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

Dunno, think a more important question is, would an independent Scotland recognise the US colonies?

God Save the Queen!

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

Well its true that an English army never whupped all Scotland.  But its also true it never had to.  At Dunbar and Glencoe and Culloden English troops helped Scots beat each other.

good point belhaven, would they still be a NATO ally?

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

we didnt bribe the scots to join they risked every penny there goverment had and a few loans from other countries to start a colony in panama in the darien province. it failed misserably and the country was bank rupt so us english nice guys that we are payed of any debts and alllowed them to become part of our once great empire. The scots would be stupid to to try get independece now cause i dout they have much natural resource so there economy would be based on tourism and us english are the only pepole stupid enough to go on holiday there and we wludnt if it was indepedent ause we dont like rebels so they wuld just get into more debt and wed hav to bail them out again

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

hmm i think every euopean would prefer going to scottland then to the rest of england:P
at least i would....
isn

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

The Scottish independence movement is based solely on bigoted resentment of the English and an inferiority complex.

Scotland is entitled to independence if it wants it and good luck to it, same for Wales, although I have yet to think or be told of a realistic benefit for either Scotland or Wales.

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

Well for one thing, all the Scots in Wales could be deported to England, and ditto for all the Welsh in Scotland.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

Then we can ship the last of them to America.

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

My father worked in scotland 10 years ago for 1 year and all the scots he socialised with weren't even thinking about independance.

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Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

well economically Scotland would be better off outside the UK(90% of UK oil is in Scottish waters), but also politically too. right now the UK is dominated by England- so much so infact that most foreigners refer to Britain simply as England. in numerous countries the word British is identical to English.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

21 (edited by ☭ Fokker 06-Mar-2008 23:59:00)

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

> EmperorHez wrote:

> @ Yell

the English never actually conquered Scotland. Scotland itself was always too big, too harsh & the Scots too fierce to actually conquer!

In 1707 the English bribed the Scottish parliament to unite the two countries, despite riots in the streets the Bill was passed & Scotland lost its freedom.

Im personally hoping for a Scottish break-away, with a bit of luck it will result in Wales getting its freedom.
_____

Not strictly true, the money given to the Scottish parliament was to bail them out after their attempt to colonise "New Caledonia" failed miserably, so that six months later all that was left was about 10 people, most of whom died on the way home.
It made Scotland bankrupt, literally. If England had not "Bought" Scotland with all that money Soctland would have become part of England anyway as it's fall was inevitable at that point.

Edit: Oh, and the companies drilling for oil in the North Sea are England based, what would that mean for Scotland if it tried to become independant and claim sole ownership of the oil?

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

the money given to the Scots parliament was to 'bail them out' (wink wink nudge nudge) basically the MPs were personally being paid for money they lost in the darien project.

any foreign company operating in scottish waters after independence will be at the mercy of what Scotland decides to do.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

"well economically Scotland would be better off outside the UK(90% of UK oil is in Scottish waters)"

I have seen this said many times but why would independence mean that Scotland's economy would be boosted by this fact?

There are three ways oil money go round the economy. Firstly, wages are paid to oil workers, who then go and spend their money. Secondly, taxes are paid to the state on oil which is bought from their country. Thirdly, profits are paid to the shareholders of the oil companies.

What here would change given Scottish independence?

Wages would still be paid to oil workers, who would still go spend those wages on the same thing. No change.

Taxes would still be paid to the state, only it would be the Scottish state rather than the UK. There are conflicting claims wherever you look but a major thing about scottish independence is whether there is a net tax flow into or out of Scotland currently. If there is a net flow of tax money into Scotland from the UK, then the taxation issues from oil revenue are null and void because Scotland would still be worse off. If there is a net flow of tax out of Scotland into the rest of the UK then this is a fair point. Unfortunately however, I am more inclined to believe that there is a net flow of tax money into rather than out of Scotland.

And finally, oil profits being paid to shareholders would not be affected by scottish independence because the ownership of the oil fields would not change. And no, any foreign companies operating in Scottish waters would not be at the mercy of what Scotland decides to do. There is a very inconvenient concept in these issues called the law. The scottish government would not be able to just seize the oilfields because that would be illegal and there is no way that a law enabling that power would ever be passed. It is possible that a Scottish government would have the power to enforce a buy out, but would they be able to afford it? And would it be in the national interest? From my (admittedly limited) knowledge, North Sea oil and gas are seriously running out. The UK now buys gas from Russia, why would we do that if we had a massive North Sea supply left?

"right now the UK is dominated by England- so much so infact that most foreigners refer to Britain simply as England. in numerous countries the word British is identical to English"

As for this claim, the UK is not dominated by England. There is proportional representation (possibly inconvenient phrase) in the Westminster parliament and English MPs do not vote as a block in order to dominate it for the sake of England. However, scottish MPs may vote on issues in the Westminster parliament which do not even take effect in Scotland. A noteable example is the change to university funding and top up fees which came into effect into England and Wales but not Scotland. However, without the votes of Scottish MPs, the whole thing wouldn't have got through parliament.

Yes, some foreigners do often refer to England when they mean the UK, but that is just because there are so many different geographical terms for our nation that it is difficult. This is especially true when most of the time British people often don't even know the distinctions between Great Britain, The British Isles and the UK. A good example is that I am fairly sure there is a difference between "Holland" and "The Netherlands" but I have no idea what it is. But what real difference would it make if everybody in the world knew the whys and wherefores of British geographical nomenclature?

tweehonderd graden, dat is waarom ze me mr. fahrenheit noemen, ik reis aan de snelheid van het licht, ik ga een supersonische man van u maken

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

billions of pounds of money gets currently sent to London to be spent on what ever the British government decides. an independent Scotland would get all of that money, thus they would become one of the richest countries in Europe.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

Re: Would USA back an independent Scotland?

But the Scots get a say in what money is spent where, even if it is English money being spent in England... I don't think you realise how powerful Scotland's position is in the UK.

If you want independance then go for it, just don't get pissy when I do the told-you-so dance tongue

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."