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Topic: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

Murder dropped to 75% last year, of the norm in Washington DC.

The Supreme Court struck down the gun ban in late 2008.

Also noteworthy is that after the gun ban was made gun crimes skyrocketed in DC.

More proof guns SAVE lives.

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

Murder dropped to 75%?

smile That still seems very high percentage to me.  It just means, that the people being robbed actually were either tied up or they did exactly as the robber told them.

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

A drop that large there is very statistically significant.

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

Usually if your looking at whats "statistically significant" you look at more then one effect...

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

The states do have strict gun control laws.  They never said it was illegal to own a firearm.  It's just illegal to use it in a criminal act.  And concealed weapon permits?  Almost anyone can get one.  Just most people are very very very very very very very very very very very very...very lazy.  I do mean that.  Gun owners are some of the laziest people on earth, because they don't want to sit down and fill out the forms, and pay the local taxes and fees.

If you fill out the forms, pay the taxes and fees, and are a law abiding citizen, you too can own a gun.

Literally.  There was nothing stopping people from getting a gun or a permit to own a gun before.  They were just lazy.

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

Question: Does anyone consider that this may be a bad test case?  Not that I'm advocating or negating either gun control theory right now, but...


The test case here is a metropolitan city in the United States.  There's not really an extensive border security issue there, allowing guns to be imported from neighboring states.

Remember, the argument in favor of gun control rests on the idea that we can eliminate guns entirely from a region.  In a city that bans guns yet allows a relatively unchecked border, the statistics will be biased against the gun laws: it means there is little to  prevent potential criminals from getting guns anyway, while only restricting those who do abide by the law.

To more accurately determine the effects of gun control, you would have to use a controlled environment: a city, state, or nation which made significant attempts to prevent guns from entering the region from outside.

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

>And concealed weapon permits?  Almost anyone can get one

Depends on the state.

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

Zarf...

Violent crime jumped and is still higher per capita in England after their gun ban

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

Fair enough.  I'm just disputing whether DC is a good case study, not whether the underlying theory is true.

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

I would specify that removing the ban was good policy and has once again resulted in verifiable results.

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

This is just another example, Mr. BeebleBrix. There are whole nations you can study with the same findings.

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12 Reply by Wild Flower Soul (edited by Wild Flower Soul 05-Apr-2010 14:58:58)

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

"Murder dropped to 75% last year, of the norm in Washington DC."
"Also noteworthy is that after the gun ban was made gun crimes skyrocketed in DC."
and
"I would specify that removing the ban was good policy and has once again resulted in verifiable results."

Correlation doesn't equal causation, but there's something to say for it.
A thorough research should be made to confirm this thesis, as the numbers on its own don't say anything. There can be all sorts of factors involved that are not clear now. Perhaps the police just did a better job this year..
What must be considered is what factors are involved in "murders" and "gun crimes". After all, I think we can agree that one of the largest factor contributing to crimerates are of a social and/or economic nature, wich is totally ignored at this time.

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

So in 40 years they never did a good job?

When your baseline is long enough, then you change one factor and get a deviation that large you're supposed to be intelligent enough to understand it is the cause.

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14 Reply by Wild Flower Soul (edited by Wild Flower Soul 05-Apr-2010 18:37:21)

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

All I'm saying is this:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/correlation.png (ty Zarf)

You give 2 facts and deduct that, while there might be a thousand other factors involved..

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

I love that comic.  smile

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

Gun bans are bad... people should be allowed to shoot theirselfs in the head if they live in the US.

Throwing yourself in front of a train is such a pussy way to go.

This forum is stupid.

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

whatever Brit! first sign we're serious about gun bans, we got Brits up to our armpits, quartering troops in our barns

1775 yep tons of Brits
1812 Jefferson proposes a ban on musket sales to the blind, next thing you know, Britwave!
1968 Revulsion at the murder of RFK leads to guns melted in statues of saint Francis = John Lennon squats on sacred American soil photographing his bum
1981 William Brady loses half his brain during the botched attempt on Reagan's life, dedicates himself to gun control = Tears for Fears and George Michael assualt the Top 40
1994= Clinton signs Assault Weapons ban = Simon freakin Cowell!!!

nice try limey!!!

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

Key: "Murder dropped to 75%?"

You should have seen DC when it was 100%. The place was a ghost town!

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

I lived in DC for a year.  I'm guessing the local politicians owned the local newspapers and television stations, because they don't report hardly any crime at all.  I'm starting to wonder who comes up with this crime news crap and starts posting percentages all over the internet.

The republicans?  The democrats?  Some guy that works for the NRA maybe?

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

Statistical crime reports are generally based on data provided by police, not by newspapers and television stations.  A news station in a large city seriously couldn't report each and every individual crime anyway... it would take up too much time...

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

especially in DC

"Now let's go to Hanna Jules for the weather. Shots fired at 1st and Market."

"Thanks Brenda. Stabbing reported at Central High School.  Well get out the umbrellas! Chance of rain in the high 80's today, with scatter showers through Thursday. Armed robbery at Garfield and Douglas.  It should clear up by Friday and you should see blue skies all weekend.  Man holding a baby out a window at Parker Apartments.  Let's go to the doppler radar.  Officer down at Colfield and Lincoln."

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

Seems to me DC could use a definite job boost, by hiring more police?

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

I don't care about this topic because whatever I say won't make a difference and I am highly sceptical about the figures given to make the original point. However, I will point out a shocking bit of misdirection which I am surprised no one else noticed.

"Also noteworthy is that after the gun ban was made gun crimes skyrocketed in DC."

If you ban guns then possession of a gun becomes a "gun crime", so a surge in "gun crimes" following a gun ban does not mean more people getting shot.

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

hahahahaha!  tongue

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Re: After Gun Ban Removed... 1 year later

not what was meant

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm

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