Topic: Why are poor people poor?

I'd like to divide the discussion into two streams of discussion: 

Stream A - Why are poor people in poor nations poor?
Stream B - Why are poor people in rich nations poor?

Please make it clear to which stream you are focusing on in your replies.

This does not discount the possibility that these two streams are somehow related.  I distinguish between them merely to facilitate discussion.

To get the discussion going, we could look at the following topics:

Here is a list of common causes of poverty:

    * Climate Change
    * Financial Crisis
    * Food Crisis

Other potential causes of poverty include poor government policy decisions, excessive greed of the rich and elites, multinational corporations, the structure of societal institutions, and influential individuals.

The attempt of this thread is to simply discuss the general trend of a select few getting richer while the vast majority remain relatively poor or even become poorer.

Re: Why are poor people poor?

Climate change is NOT A SOURCE OF POVERTY! Get off the Mary Jane, quit sniffing the Coka Cola, and no more Acid Reflux stamps for you!


The poor... sigh... are poor because of many circumstances, but there is poor then there is POOR.


A poor person in the United States for instance, has a Cell Phone on average, a big screen television, a car, and fancy shoes.

A poor person in Zimbabwe has no clothes, just rags...


There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

3 (edited by Justinian I 30-Mar-2010 02:02:55)

Re: Why are poor people poor?

I'm poor living off of $400/mo, live in the US, and my only complaints are that I can no longer afford a car, strippers and alcohol.

The reason I'm poor is because working full time is no fun.

Re: Why are poor people poor?

Poor people in developed countries are poor because society can't afford for everyone to be rich. imo.

TC pwns me

Re: Why are poor people poor?

Also a quick note.

If 99 people have one hundred dollars, and one person has one hundred and one dollars... does this mean that he is rich and they are poor?

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Why are poor people poor?

Poor people are poor because of bad choices.  Either by the government, the banks, or personal choices.

Obviously the poor person who posted above saying he no longer has enough money for strippers and booze is poor because of bad choices.  Then again that poor person with his poor decision on giving his money to strippers, will eventually pay for their further education in college.  Of course those piss poor strippers will pay that money on booze because they'll feel depressed about their current decision.  Or pay money to the hospital after their pimp boyfriend beats the living shit out of them for having such a job in the first place.

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

Re: Why are poor people poor?

I like to blame the government.

Caution Wake Turbulence

Re: Why are poor people poor?

for both cases, in developed countries and undeveloped countries. people are poor because there are people better off then them.

Re: Why are poor people poor?

Major source of poverty: The human-technology development gap.

With the advances of both globalization and technological advances, global economies are undergoing massive reorganizations.  Industrial powers like the United States are suddenly being challenged in their competitive edge, with industrial age work being moved toward developing nations.  The factory, far from being an end in itself in development, is now seen to be simply a transitional phase in development, necessary to produce goods but not fully utilizing the potential of all humans, as it still required millions of human minds to be set to remedial tasks within the factory.

In its place, the developed world is seeing a transition to a knowledge-oriented economy.  Sectors such as banking are becoming increasingly important, fueling the investment that's ever so important in developing businesses quickly.  While computer manufacturing takes place in factories throughout the world, software and hardware development is almost exclusively within the developed world.  The 1st world is no longer the industrial center of the world.  Instead, it's the knowledge center of the world.
Ironically, we're on the brink of an interesting, more democratic economic crossroads: while in the industrial era, the average person was needed for their biological abilities (able to lift something), the modern era looks down upon those people, instead raising up what the worker as an individual brings to the forefront.  While factory work just needs you to be strong and work like a cog, much of the service industry wants you to be an individual, as they're paying to gain access to your intellectual capabilities.

But while the transition is a good thing in the long term due to the increased efficiency of all production, there are short term problems.  Look at the United States.  In the 70's, we were an industrial powerhouse.  In the 80's, we still had that place as a major center of industrialization.  Many workers who are seeing this transition are at a point where they can neither control it nor adapt to it.  A 45-year old who worked in a factory all his life, only to see his plant outsourced to Mexico... what is he supposed to do?  Any place he goes would require learning a host of new skills which, frankly, he may be too late in learning.  Even if he does decide to get a new position in a field like sales at Target or something, it creates another new problem: an oversupply of now-entry level workers.  That reduces the salary which a business can pay, due to the simple law of supply and demand.


So how do you fix problems like this?  You can't... well, not without either negating the benefits of global trade.  The best you can do is ride out the transition, and enjoy the long term benefits society will receive with the added supply to all fields, including production of goods and development of technologies...

Actually, perhaps that is the solution.  As increased specialization results in an increase in net production of resources, and globalization ensures those resources can reach regional markets easily, the supply of resources will expand, resulting in a decline in the prices for those resources.  Today, goods such as food, which used to take up a good portion of income for people, can be satisfied at extremely cheap prices.  Is the same true for all levels of manufactured goods?

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Why are poor people poor?

The world: Rich & Poor are totally because of

(I'm addressing both rich and poor countries)

"the structure of societal institutions"

A great read on the subject would be "The Human Zoo" & "The Naked Ape" by Desmond Morris.        (insight to human nature and social structures)

I'm reffering to "tribes and super tribes" the evolution of our Hunter gather past.
(If you reply to my post please stay on topic: I am not going to defend evolution...and if evolution is a given then:

We started as a very small social unit.  Let me paraphase the statement of the begining of The Human Zoo.

To our family unit: Mothers,Fathers, Sisters, Brothers we would almost all agree to complete loyalty.  The very first traveling groups of our Homo Sapiens were comprised of 10-30 maybe 50 individuals bound by family, mating and useful skills.

As the world became more populus, things started to change.  Our loyalty to each other became streched: especially where resources were scarce.  New, larger "tribes" were formed.  Once we conqured the animal kingdom and most of the elements we crowded ourselves out.

Tribe evolution:  Immeadiate Family

                         Extended family : cousins , aunts, uncles, grandparents

                         The hunter/gatherer group helping each other to survive

                         The small village/town/city group working together (this was because of
                          the invention of the plow and farming) & defending against the only
                          danger: other Homo Sapiens that wanted to take what they had.

                          As cities turned into larger enities, different proffessions developed.
                         before when everone only had one of two jobs & it was easy to feel
                          connected but as we changed it was easier and easier to not consider
                         everyone as a family tribe member.   PATRIOTISM was born to keep
                          a sense of connection for everyone within the group.

                          Cities became Countries. 

Cities and countries being so big, fractures developed within: tribes within tribes within tribes.  For example:  The various wings of the government, Royalty, the world banking system.  Or even the trades & proffessions.

  The point to all this background is this:   It is almost unthinkable for you to watch your Mother, Father, Brother or Sister wallow in poverty if you could do something about it.
The human being has forsaken itself and forgotten we are all one family. 

We are Homo Sapiens.  Race, religion & politics are akin to different breeds of dog, if we were k9's.

Many have this revelation but still are powerless because of the social structurs we have set up.  Who in their right mind would give up what they have to a stranger; that they may squander the wealth bestowed, when you would feel that you would use it better for yourself but ultimatly for the betterment of your family! 

I started by saying it's our social structures and I believe thats true for most of the poorer countries but I live in Canada. (Unfortunately, We like the states and Western Europe, keep the little man down) In Canada believe its 20/80 rule.  80% are poor choices.  Or the inability to move forward.  put the past in the past. 

I say this because there are "professional" beggers that live on the street by choice here in Victoria BC.  A side bar note:  many on the street people in Canada are mentally challenged.  Not retarded but have had some hardships they have never completely healed from.  We have Free physical health care but not free mental counselling health care....  & didn't someone once say... Sound Mind, Sound Body?

Phew,  Are you still here?  Not quite a rant at the end but to sum it up further:

There are poor because we turn a blind eye and our economy is based on scarcity. (OIL)

What's the meaning of Life?  Questions are the Answer!
With questions...with mystery, we have purpose.
The meaning of Life is Purpose.
~Anaxagorus

Re: Why are poor people poor?

Nobody's greed has "made" you poor, you arrogant, ignorant slob.

It is ignorant thinking like yours that helps no one improve their standard of living and leads to masses promising and masses voting for handouts--hurting productivity and lowering your standard of living even further.

Class warfare does not benefit the lower class. It benefits the upper class, who laugh at your taking the bait all the way to the bank.

The internet and a mass of educational materials are available to you. But nobody is forcing you to get a real education. So it looks like you've answered your own question, for at least some of the world's poor: You choose to remain poor and do nothing about it but support policy aimed at making you poorer and more dependent.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Why are poor people poor?

Anaxagorus,



Interesting points.  If the population of humanity were a mere 100 people, each human could easily be considered a member of the interdependent tribe of humanity and that tribe's societal institutions would have evolved to ensure every member was a productive contributor of the tribe.  The problem is that our tribe is 7billion, and we are incapable of considering each member of our tribe as a contributor, and our institutions have evolved so as to differentiate and classify different humans by different values.

Re: Why are poor people poor?

Zarf,

I think technological transition is not a sufficient explanation.

Re: Why are poor people poor?

It's not a sufficient explanation for all poverty, yes.  Are you saying there is some single root cause of all poverty?  I was merely pointing out one large demographic of poverty victims.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Why are poor people poor?

Can I have some $ for strippers?

Re: Why are poor people poor?

When I worked a low income/disabled persons housing project... you could tell it was Social Security pay day by the number of prostitutes... errr... guests that came in...

Also by how many people came in stumbling drunk from a bar.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Why are poor people poor?

i love the fact the idiotic right wingers here fail so badly.

>>Nobody's greed has "made" you poor, you arrogant, ignorant slob.<<
Actually this is exactly the reason why there is poor anywhere, along with scarcity of resources. There is poor people anywhere because people are inherantly greedy and grab as much as they can, and there is not infinite resources. You can blame bad choices and such like, but the simple fact is that there is only so much stuff and people will take as much as they can take, then some more. People will not stop taking if they don't have too. This means that bad choices, bad luck or bad effects (such as a changing climate in your part of the world,) have an effect of poverty. However this bad choice/luck/climate is not the root source of the poverty, just why the certian subset of people are poor at that time.


>> If 99 people have one hundred dollars, and one person has one hundred and one dollars... does this mean that he is rich and they are poor? <<
Yes. But it does not determine if anyone is in poverty, which would be earning less than what is required to have a basic standard of living in the country you live. So the poverty line will be much higher in western nations than developing nations. However The 'poor' in USA will be 'Rich' in Somalia, despite the fact the american will be struggling to live and the somalian will be living in luxury. It is a matter of definition. And also us being smart about it, which I know is a stretch for you Right Wing Morons.

>> When I worked a low income/disabled persons housing project... you could tell it was Social Security pay day by the number of prostitutes... errr... guests that came in...

Also by how many people came in stumbling drunk from a bar. <<

So That was how you passed your time a few years ago flint?


>>Can I have some $ for strippers? <<
No, get a job you slob! tongue

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: Why are poor people poor?

Sometimes hard work, blood, sweat and tears makes a man rich.  I knew a manuel laborour fellow, who was proud to heft heavy items to and fro, back and forth.  But then he was diagnosed with cancer.  Eventually he had to have a colostimy bag attached, and can no longer work.  He died no more than a month after retiring.  And many believe the only thing that kept him alive, even with cancer, was his work.  Without being able to work, he just slowly degenerated with nothing to do.

Sitting around, drinking booze, smoking dope, and sitting in front of the television, skateboarding, and what not....well your going to be poor.  But that's because of your own personal choices.

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

Re: Why are poor people poor?

That's assuming you have the option to work hard and earn money. Can't very well do that if you have no work opportunities.

Re: Why are poor people poor?

poor people in poor countries are poor because they're robbed when they get too far ahead

and poor people in rich countries are poor because they give up on earning paper

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Why are poor people poor?

I will answer all of those questions... its quite easy:

Work industry - or however you want to call it: makes and meets: Racism, Differences, Religion issues... etc... if the employers would have all been the same and pay for the ammount of job that you do, everyone would be happy, but that is imposible, so get over it whatever your name is, we will never have an overall goodness...

Cheers

Words spoken out of my heart!

loyalty, respect and honor is what makes this game so great
dpenguins, Royal Toilette, Aaron SK, Evil, Lilith, Aleph ATE

Re: Why are poor people poor?

=^o.o^= Your heart tastes like ripened tomatoes.

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

Re: Why are poor people poor?

Institutional racism is grossly exaggerated.

Re: Why are poor people poor?

Race based employee mandates are one way,bad science, and entirely wrong.

And lawsuits which declare a quota was not met is wronger yet.

Some companies may have 100%black employment but this company will not be used to reduce quota's.  That's true racism.

And statistical variation must be allowed for which means quota's are bad policy.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

25

Re: Why are poor people poor?

All poor people are on drugs.

Rehabilitated IC developer