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Imperial Forum → Politics → College as a right?
True. But overall, the group of people with a higher probability of succeeding (the middle class) are given the fewest opportunities. The poor who attend college are also less likely to graduate overall, just from personal experience. I encounter more of them who get free rides and then drop out than those who graduate. A wiser investment would actually be the middle class. Even better would be a merit system.
The middle class is assumed to be able to carry its own weight, its the curse of a social democracy, you are carrying the weak
Well, the middle class sometimes can but it's severely taxed in doing so, and a middle class family often has to take out student loans to make ends meet. And yes, the curse of "social democracy" ...
Taking out a student loan doesnt seem all that bad to me, the problem in US i would say is the insanely high tuitions you have to pay. Looking at education as anything but an investment is just wrong. The largest asset any real nation has is the human capital it posesses, and this it enhanced through education. Im not saying everyone should get a uni degree, because frankly there is no need, we still need people working with hand crafts or filling lower jobs, and not everyone is suited for uni education. But boost the production of a country to the maximum we should always strive for putting the best suited individuals into our universities and higher education, no matter what social class or income bracket they belong to. To achieve that it might temporarily be neccesary to give some groups an advantage, to make way for their said group in the future.
That's exactly what I mean by seeing education as an investment. Allocate human resources efficiently. Create equal opportunity for everyone - it's a tragedy when a person with great potential isn't able to achieve it because they weren't able to afford an education. We want a return on our investment, not a waste. The way the US government does it is make high-risk investments. Benefiting one group to provide equal opportunity is justified to me, but the US government isn't doing it right. And the loans imposed on the middle class impose a heavy price on them. I've even seen some calculations that suggested a degree isn't even worth the loans for it.
Yes, we have a problem with high tuition rates. It's partly a result of our moronic government and private interests that make education facilities expensive.
In norway it has been proven that several fields of education beyond high school does not pay off financially. Basicly because the 5-8 years without income isnt made up for with higher earnings in the future, this is in particular compared to crafts such as plumbing or carpenting, which are very highly paid in Norway, probably largely because we do not have mexicans :S. Howver not all value can be measured financially, and even though some hand craft employments might pay better, they are also harder to perform and tiresome after doing the exactly same thing for 40 years
College is 2 things. 1st, it is pointless. You spend 4-6 years wasting your money on crap that you have 65% chance of actually getting the major you did. and 2nd, you prove to your employers you have the balls to start something as annoying as college and get it done. And if you worked while at college, then hey, congrats, all the better for you. That's the sum of college right there. Don't like it, go try to put your foot in your mouth. If you do, then hey! let's throw a party, I call shotgun! 
Education is only a right, only when the student wants to learn. How many high school kids are texting inside classrooms? Who gets the blame the student or the teacher? The teacher of course. When the teacher asks for the student to hand over the device, the student decries that it's personal property, even though it's in the classroom where the student is supposed to be educating himself/herself.
So really, college? For a bunch of american idiotic children who don't wish to learn? Who don't take they're homework home to do it? Who would rather text, hang out, and skateboard than actually learn anything valuable.
Lets not even get to the Girls Gone Wild, In College, who say they're paying their way by posing nude all over the internet and being videotaped.
Education? You want to know why we're not having a truelly educated society, and how it's a god given right?
We're the only one's left that are educated. Everyone else is starting to become a bunch of screw ups, and lazy ass'. Not that some weren't already.
Welcome to the eternal nanny state, where the state owes you everything for all of your life. Also, the state owns you.
Bunch of pansy [censored] ruining our great nation.
Where in the Constitution is the right to an education? It's a privilege we see great benefit in bestowing upon our younth; it benefits us and makes us stronger as a nation. I don't owe your dumb lazy kids an education. They can work through theirs like we have or live in your basement all their lives. That's between you and them. Don't drag me into it. It's not my responsibility.
If you want a nanny though you're age 20+, how about you go to [censored].
I see the moronic have missed the point of education. It is an investment in the countries future (or if you don't provide good living conditions some other countries future.) Uni degrees should be paid for with loans, which are then setto zero on graduation and a job found within the same country. Degrees should still have pre-requisites, such as you are not american (or at least at non-american uni's.) By having more highly educated indivuals a nation will have a more highly educated economy which will lead to more inovation, more inventions, an increase in productivity, which will lead to a realitive decrease in the cost of living, which will mean you sorry broke arse can actually afford stuff, with the money you get from the unemployment benifit paid for by the taxes of those graduates who now have high paying jobs, and thus pay all the tax.
Also if you beleive the movies or porn sites about college students, you may need a reality check....
In other news, Flint is an idiot....
The parents don't see school or college as an education for youth. They see it as pre-payed babysitting so they don't have to watch their children.
Oh I seen the educational system as several colleges. I saw a lot of screwballs dicking around at any time of day and every time of night. I been in the classrooms, and the students were more interested in surfing the net IN THE CLASS, than actuallyl listening to the professor. I seen them whispering and joking in class, just like those same students in grade level school.
Todays students aren't learning what they need to learn, because they're not paying attention in class. It's about time we brought back corporal punishment to classrooms to deal with this growing idiocracy.
You can always be like me and complete a Masters program only to pursue a career that has absolutely nothing to do with your educational background.
You mean nuclear physicist working as a line cook?
Or a business economist / accountant working as a waitress?
Yah, I used to work with some of those people.
Just because you studied abroad, in college, or a university. Does not mean your going to get the job you studied 2-4 years for. Your more knowledgable, but maybe you should have studied in an area where there were quite a few openings or empty seats to fill. Why study to be a teacher, when the schools are cutting back? Stupid. Why be a nuclear scientist when programs were cut and reactors were idled to a standstill back in the 1990's? Stupid.
Some "students" need to figure out what the local economy needs, not what they want to be when they grow up. Right now locally? We need Volunteer Firemen. We need HOME health care providers, not doctors or nurses, but HOME health care providers. Otherwise this town that I live in is for tourists. We have bars, restaurants, hotels, motels, and sandy beaches. We also have a large bay for fishing boats, so our economy is also geared to ocean fisheries. Though during winter time we're hit economically every year. And the only time money comes in is during summer. So our "educated" masses have to deal with all those fools who got degrees in jobs that aren't anywhere near 100 miles of us.
So you want to get a degree for a job that pays lots and lots of money. In your dreams, or if your lucky.
I had an arguement with a fool in here three years ago, *cough Flint*, who stated that all those kids going to college had promisary notification from several business' that there were open slots for jobs at their corporations. I laughed, and asked did they have a contract. He said yes they did. And then asked him if he read the fine print stating that the contract can be null and void depending on economic flow, and that if business was good, no problem. If business was bad, then the contract would be cancelled. Of course it did take a couple days to respond to find that yes, contractual obligations to job promises all depends on the fortunes of the business in question.
Just because you have a "promise" or a "contract" stipulating that you'll get that job after graduating college or a university, doesn't mean your going to get that job.
If your gonna learn something learn something that people need, and will keep you employed. Not what you think will get you big bucks for sitting on your ass in some office.
In my case, it worked toward the better. For the past decade, I've been earning more than double than I would ever hope to make as a molecular biologist.
Handing out oxycotin in the Wal-mart pharmacy?
Negative, working in the aviation industry.
Ohhhhh.
Mechanics?
Rigger?
Traffic Controller?
Pilot?
Co-Pilot?
Automatic Pilot?
Air Flight Steward/Stewardess?
The guy that yells at his subordinates?
Do tell do tell. Enquiring minds want to know!
I've worked as an aircraft dispatcher for ten years, roughly half of that as per my duty in the US Army National Guard (MOS 93P) -- which, incidentally, helped me through college -- and the remainder with one of the "Big Five" major legacy carriers. The latter half of my tenure as an ADX, I spent my "free" time obtaining the necessary ratings and credentials to earn my Airline Transport Pilot certificate. And so, for the past four years, I've served as a First Officer (or co-pilot) for a different airline. That's the readers' digest version.
According to a book borrowed from a friend, the median lifetime earnings for workers is as follows (source: bureau of labor statistics population survey)
professional degree (MD, DDS, DVM, JD etc): $4,400,000
Doctorate: $3,400,000
Master's Degree: $2,500,000
Bachelor's Degree: $2,100,000
High-school Graduate: $1,200,000
Each education bracket provides enough to certainly pay back most, if not all, loans made for that degree.
Moral of the story: go to school, kids.
So why is it doctors, teachers and such are saying they are underpayed?
Because their union tells them to say so...
> Key wrote:
> So why is it doctors, teachers and such are saying they are underpayed?
When is the last time you've said to your employer "No, I'm fine. In fact, you're paying me a ton more than I'm really worth! Thanks a million!"
Actually i'm doing the job of three people in my current position, and just yesterday I was asked to do more. Still a low end teacher gets payed double the amount I get. And i'd say many teachers live in a double income home. So they get payed a lot more than I, in a double income home, and what? They're living beyond their means? So they continiously go on strike every year to say they're not getting payed enough?
I don't buy it. They went to college to learn how to become teachers and then bitch about pay? Or were they told that teaching is a really well thought of profession that everyone needs, and therefor they'll be earning premium bookoo bucks.
And doctors saying they're understaffed AND underpayed? Understaffed maybe, but underpayed? I think not. I think these fools believe that they should be living up the rich life. This isn't the 1950's, where your gonna be pulling in far more than what you can spend. Now, it's spend spend spend on things you can't afford, or don't need.
I think we should cut their wages immediately. Obviously they only need to get by on subsidy levels, just like the rest of the people who make less than 25k a year.
"So why is it doctors, teachers and such are saying they are underpayed?"
Because they are. They're paid under what they would like to make.
key, I apologize if I didn't notice it if you mentioned it before; what do you do?
Imperial Forum → Politics → College as a right?
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