Cast of your yokes of oppresion! Label yourselves Liberals now!  Change the definition within yourselves to more suit todays world!

As long as it's not the conservatives telling you it's a bad thing.

I am a Wage Slave.  Destined to trod along underneath piles of rules and regulations, without the power to change my day to day oppresive atmosphere of total soul crushing bad karma.

IT is #4 that people have a problem with.  Because when they see #4 they start talking about SOCIALISM.  It does say as Guranteed by LAW and secured by government protect and civil liberties.

Being a Liberal does not mean facism.  It does not mean socialism.

It means progress.

I do like #8 myself.

Yep, i'm a liberal.

"so what does avo mean when he says "i'm libertarian"--except that he shares the views of other people who call themselves "libertarians"?"

i define libertarian earlier in this thread as "the ideology i think recognizes that people have differences in opinion, and instead of groups forcing their views onto others, individuals should be given freedom as long as it doesnt infringe on other people's freedoms..."

> avogadro wrote:

> where do i call myself a libertarian?   

1: Seriously?  You didn't just say "I'm a libertarian, and libertarian means X" right before this?
2: Okay, I'll Pepsi Challenge you on this.  NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER call yourself a libertarian if you want to play this game.  If I ever catch you calling yourself a libertarian (or, for that matter, calling yourself a conservative, liberal, or any other sort of overarching political ideology label), I'll respond "I win."

> also, even if i did, i provided a definition of libertarian ideology, so i would of be associating myself with that definition, and not necessarily to any specific individual...

Except that:
1: The label you associate yourself with is also accepted by other people who you disagree with.  You could theoretically just say "well, that makes me a libertarian and that person an idiot," but that person could do the exact same thing.  The very purpose of the political label is to give us an understanding of what a person believes.

2: The very fact that multiple people with differing views of the term can hold that they follow the same ideology means that the term itself is a hollow word.  At best, it has a vague definition which leaves itself open to interpretation, and leaves us in debates of guilt by association.  At worst, it misrepresents who you are, forcing you to constantly clarify your perspective in semantics games...

"1: The label you associate yourself with is also accepted by other people who you disagree with.  You could theoretically just say "well, that makes me a libertarian and that person an idiot," but that person could do the exact same thing.  The very purpose of the political label is to give us an understanding of what a person believes."

wrong.... i provided a definition, and if i say i fit that definition; and someone else calls themselves a libertarian that fits a different definition of libertarian; its just a disagreement in the meaning of a word, neither is necessarily wrong. yes, the meaning of the word is to give us an understanding of what a person beleives... but because of how political labels are vague, with many different interpretations of which word is, i defined the ideology to further clarify what im talking about

"1: Seriously?  You didn't just say "I'm a libertarian, and libertarian means X" right before this?
2: Okay, I'll Pepsi Challenge you on this.  NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER call yourself a libertarian if you want to play this game.  If I ever catch you calling yourself a libertarian (or, for that matter, calling yourself a conservative, liberal, or any other sort of overarching political ideology label), I'll respond "I win."

i seriously never said i was a libertarian in this thread...

and no, you would not win if i ever do. every political ideology is fairly vague. in some discussions, a vague description is all thats needed and is all thats appropriate inwhich case calling someone a libertarian would be appropriate. other times, you need to be much more specific. in this thread i elaborated on what i meant be libertarian, so i wasnt making the mistake you claimed i was...  i did not use a loose umbrella term. i said "if libertarian means this specific definition, then.... "

I'm saying, ZARFs position comes down to "labels are myth or lies--either you sincerely imagine what a libertarian is and call yourself that to match up to your own imagination or you take on the label to decieve others" 

i think you're a libertarian hippie yippie yahoo. In spades

I'm a liberal, respect mah kittah's authoritah =^><^=

Pepsi Challenge? Wft? :S.