Yeah sorry, no Conservative would say we can afford everything because we are the United States.

As for the poor, if they work, if they get goods at very good (aka cheap as all heck) prices, then they are better than if we tear everyone down to their level.

DPS I am going to make a time machine to go back in time, revoke the Lend Lease, remove the United States from war versus Germany forever... We do not wish to spend the money to fight them, we do not wish to spend the money to garrison them for 70 years, we do not wish to help them reunite with their Eastern half... oh wait I am a Conservative... wars have prices, and I acknowledge this, and we must protect our freedom, as well as the freedom of others, or we ALL pay the price of losing our populations like the Jews, like the Gypsies...

Oh wait I forgot, you hate the Jews. So thats ok with you...

Wait til it's your peoples turn then, then you will wish someone said 'enough with that'.

Meanwhile your trolling.

You wonder why this forum died, why your fun died, why IC is dying? How many people play now? 100? Well maybe 200...

Because the trolls took over the game, and ran out the non-trolls.

You, while I was away, DID NOT START A SINGLE POLITICAL THREAD. NOT ONE! Most of the time those political threads here were wishy washy, slow to grow, did not grow, or just got into flame fests.

Enjoy the silence, in a couple days you can just sit back wondering what to do anymore.

Your a troll.

In a few days I am gone forever.

You never posted an original thread here, you only come to attack, and nothing else.

Enjoy the silence

I think a better way to articulate the problem with Liberals is to say that their values are impractical. It isn't that Conservatives do not want to raise up the poor, as they see the benefits of it, rather they want people to have equal opportunity and the motivation to be self-reliant.

Liberals, on the other hand, value economic/social justice and equality of outcome. Rather than understand social spending as an investment, they want to redistribute wealth to create justice. Creating such an outcome, however, is impractical and deserves resistance from more enlightened members of society.

> Justinian I wrote:

> I think a better way to articulate the problem with Liberals is to say that their values are impractical. It isn't that Conservatives do not want to raise up the poor, as they see the benefits of it, rather they want people to have equal opportunity and the motivation to be self-reliant.

>Liberals, on the other hand, value economic/social justice and equality of outcome. Rather than understand social spending as an investment, they want to redistribute wealth to create justice. Creating such an outcome, however, is impractical and deserves resistance from more enlightened members of society.

A better response than many today.

I fear they think that by forcing others to care, they can achieve equality, however this is a falacy... letting others care on their own is much more effective.

If I offered an IC'er a $40,000 year salary, guaranteed whether they work or not, do you not think most would not work?

If I offered an IC'er a $40,000 year salary if they work... do you think they would work, and therefore make a usable product or service?

And by the way the $40,000 thing... I actually could, if the tax tidal wave was not coming... hire 6-12 employees for a business I could run at $25,000 a year for 5-11 of them, the last would earn $60,000... though the last would require special licensing but this is an above average wage at this juncture for the industry. And I am dead serious. I scoped out the land, I estimated prices, I know where the nearest competitors are, I would be priced appropriately, and so forth.

But I am already going to push the future upper tax bracket in a few years regardless of what I do... the increases make my personal increases not worthwhile.... I would lose more than I would make now...

So I wait, I dither, I hope someone with a fat wallet and with a fear for taxes does not purchase it out, build it, but not run it... Anywhere in a 100 miles radius of my site, and I am not going to be feasible for a low cash start. By the way my position would be perfect for Students, excepting the one proffessional. About half the time sitting on your arse doing nothing... now I wonder what they would do with all that time?

I would have a 50% ownership stake, and a loan, the other 50% would be in the hands of a single investor. Annual income would be worst case $500,000, with a probable standard income of $1,500,000. Costs would be labor, and otherwise 'minimal'. I can admit, environmental fee's would be a worry under the Obama administration as well... I could be hit with some increases there that also would make things 'hurt'.

I would help more people with less taxes, and pay more in total tax revenue generated with less taxes, yet Liberals seem to think 'he should just cover that many people already'.

American liberals are essentially the same as republicans. You have 3 spectrums. first, the liberal spectrum. Radical and Not so radical. Then comes the Liberal and Republican spectrum, then the republican of not so radical and radical.

They all die the same though. So I don't care what kind of person or politician you are, once you're dead, *YOU'RE MINE* ^^

Radical conservatives are just as insane. They believe in supporting a huge industrial/military complex at the expense of our internal well being and infrastructure. It wasn't always this way you know. Pre-Regan conservatives believed more in things like fiscal responsibility and compassion for minorities and the poor. Now days most people who define themselves as "conservatives" are anything but. I believe that too many of them try to look at Regan as the model for themselves. But lets be honest here, Regan wasn't all that great as a president in terms of internal policies.

If you want to bring the conservative movement back into the mainstream yo need to look at HW Bush as your model. He was IMO a far better president that Regan ever was. He believed in fiscal responsibility and raised taxes in order to balance the budget. And for that he was vilified for it by his own party.

If you want to blame anyone for far left liberalism you have to blame the far right conservatives as much. You cannot have a Yin without a Yang. For 8 years we've had radical conservatism rammed through our throats, and what did we get? Arguably the worst presidential administration since William McKinley. Budget surpluses wiped out through reckless tax cuts and poor fiscal policy, two poorly planned wars, deficits out of the wazoo, a broken education system and a sharp decline in American leadership in science and technology fields across the board.

So congratulations flint, radical conservatives did quite a number destroying this country. And to think you were shocked by the hard turn to the left? I'm not. It's called a course correction. The further you go off course the sharper the turn you need to make. Eventually the course straightens out but it always takes a while.

As a moderate I'm a firm believer in that one party should control the presidency while the other controls at least one house in congress. It forces the two sides to compromise and talk with each other. Something that both parties hate to do but wish they would do more of.

So basically you say that American Liberals are insane. I say American Conservatives are just as insane and are at fault for the rise of American Liberalism. They sowed the seeds of their own opposition then try to look all innocent as if nothing was ever their own fault.

"In a few days I am gone forever."

Good, don't let the door hit you on the way out. ^.^

GW Bush was no super conservative. He was a Moderate at best, a very small liberal at worst.

A true Conservative has not existed in our government for 14 years. I am a true conservative.

I understand the original purpose behind the DOT, but I also understand how it is running amok. I understand the original purpose behind the EPA, but it has entirely mutated and is a danger to our nation now. I understand the logic behind the Interstate system, believe me... I understand it does help probably better than most, since I have drive all the different Interstate Highways, most of the old US Highway system, and much of the State Highways (Hawaii and Alaska excluded).

I understand a lot more than you have ever tried to give me credit for, because you, Lizon are a devout troll when it comes to me.

A true Conservative understands there is two sides to taxation, high and low, and that low means more money for the people.

A true Conservative understands the free market, with only regulations stopping Monopolies, and with punishments for outright crimes, is the best way to improve the human factor.

A true Conservative understands a safety net is very sound policy, but endless welfare will be endlessly abused.

A true Conservative understands that war is bad, but sometimes you just have to kill the other guy before he kills you.

A true Conservative, like myself, will show solutions in many ways, only to be shut down by false leaders, such as yourself for not matching your ideals.

I will be making a farewell post in a day or two... I will go no further on this vein, for it cuts to the entirety of the post. It will be political, it will be cutting, it will be educational, it will be thorough, and most of all... it will be the truth.

"GW Bush was no super conservative. He was a Moderate at best, a very small liberal at worst."

Bush was a Neo-con. ^.^

"A true Conservative has not existed in our government for 14 years. I am a true conservative."

More like 30-40 years. Conservatives disappeared after the civil rights movement.

"I understand the original purpose behind the DOT, but I also understand how it is running amok. I understand the original purpose behind the EPA, but it has entirely mutated and is a danger to our nation now. I understand the logic behind the Interstate system, believe me... I understand it does help probably better than most, since I have drive all the different Interstate Highways, most of the old US Highway system, and much of the State Highways (Hawaii and Alaska excluded)."

There's actually a lot more the DOT could be doing to improve our infrastructure. Too bad it gets bogged down in messy State vs State brawls.

"I understand a lot more than you have ever tried to give me credit for, because you, Lizon are a devout troll when it comes to me. "

Actually I would wager that I'm far more intelligent and have a better understanding of complex systems than you do. You do best at one topic then trying to drown your opponent in endless facts. Similar to Xeno in many ways. The Devil is in the details. I work at breaking down arguments to their primary parts and exploiting weaknesses in their relation to large complex systems. I only go into a topic so much before pulling back, and looking at the big picture. Furthermore you consider anyone who doesn't think like you as a troll. But this is simply a normal reaction for your personality type.

"A true Conservative understands there is two sides to taxation, high and low, and that low means more money for the people."

Wrong, a true conservative understands that fiscal responsibility comes before low taxes. Only once the budget is stabilized can taxes be lowered as a result. You are not a conservative.

"A true Conservative understands the free market, with only regulations stopping Monopolies, and with punishments for outright crimes, is the best way to improve the human factor."

A true conservative understands that in some markets a monopoly is desired, even necessary. A conservative would rather let the markets figure their own way out while protecting the assets of the whole as much as possible. You are not a conservative.

"A true Conservative understands a safety net is very sound policy, but endless welfare will be endlessly abused."

That is a conservative belief, the question comes to how big the net should be.

"A true Conservative understands that war is bad, but sometimes you just have to kill the other guy before he kills you"

A true conservative doesn't go into war recklessly and have a way out planned out beforehand. A true conservative takes a mentality of you don't hit me I won't hit you. You are not a conservative.

"A true Conservative, like myself, will show solutions in many ways, only to be shut down by false leaders, such as yourself for not matching your ideals."

Flint you yourself suggested arresting anyone who lies, doesn't agree, or downright oppose your views! You believe in denying rights to citizens, forced mass relocation of millions, and federal big brother control of the internet. You are not a conservative. You are a Neo-con. A fake conservative. A person who uses conservative ideals as a front for totalitarian policies.

"I will be making a farewell post in a day or two... I will go no further on this vein, for it cuts to the entirety of the post. It will be political, it will be cutting, it will be educational, it will be thorough, and most of all... it will be the truth."

Truth is in the eye of the beholder. Unfortunately the blind man cannot see, which describes your condition perfectly.

> Justinian I wrote:

> I'm a monarchist, but I'm not authoritarian or totalitarian. I don't care what people do in their personal lives, but private interests need to be controlled with the iron fist of one man. The only alternative is plutocracy.

Indeed! I am an monarchist too (one of about 500 here in germany). The glorious times when we had an emperor and an empire. Colonies, battleships and an emperor with an fetish for costumes... Most of all germany reached from france to the russian border. All lost now and as a result i have to dig out every information i search for, instead of writing an e-mail to the archives in Breslau or K

Flint if anything you are predictable. It's amusing how easy is is to guide you to the desired responses.

"A conservative understands we have some government functions at the Federal level which are State level issues. "

Conservative state right issues were dramatically changed in the 1800's with the conclusion of the civil war. If you take a step back and look objectively you can begin to realize that state rights have become less and less important over the past few centuries. When the populace was more or less static in terms of business, population movements, and society the individual social makeups of each state fostered a more independent status among states. State rights were inherently more importance among those living in the 1700-1800's.

It was only natural as the US became more intertwined and intermingles with itself that this individual motivator begins to fade. People identify themselves less and less with the state their from and more with the country as a whole. A variety of factors contributed to this, mostly from technology that improve interconnectedness within the country. Social and political movements followed that further broke down the barriers between states. Socially trying to impose a pre-civil war state of governance to a 21st century modern society will fail utterly.

"A Conservative also understands reducing taxes increases tax revenue if the taxes are to high."

Again you are incorrect. a Neo-con believes this, which fits your description perfectly. But not a true conservative. A conservative doesn't like to take chances. They would like to reduce taxes for the most part, but understand that if they don't pay off their debts their doomed to failure as well. Excessive debt is something that frankly isn't something that anyone should be comfortable with. I know the old business saying, you have to spend money to make money. What is easy to forget is the corollary, you can make more money by spending less. The implication here of course is that once your business finances have equalized you can begin cutting excess to produce more income and can settle your debts easier. This is a more conservative route in that it is less risky. If you go off and cut your revenue, or rather your income, which is the same as spending it you are at risk of bankrupting yourself. Your initial debt will be higher, and at some point the interest on that debt will become higher than any increased sales a drop in revenue would promote. With nearly 10 trillion in debt we cannot afford such risks anymore. The proper, conservative thing to do is to stabilize our current financial situation, then start scaling back expenses and use the excess revenue to pay off the debt. This is the conservative thing to do.

"A Conservative understands the rich make jobs, not the poor"

No markets create jobs. Most people are employed in medium to small businesses. The owners of these enterprises are anything but "rich". Many of them are simple working class citizens. It isn't about the 1 person that can create 100,000 jobs. It's about the 1000 people who can make a 100 jobs each. It's called the bottom up theory, you should research it sometime.

"I could go on, but your a blind man with prejudices and a desire to rename Conservatives to fit your agenda."

Again I pitty you in that you are so deluded with your own beliefs that you blind yourself to anything outside those beliefs. You actually believe your own propaganda, which coincidentally speaks volumes of your weak and predictable mental state.

****

Again flint, your responses and actions are very predictable. It's very easy to stylize a rebuttal in such a way to guide you to the desired responses. Let us hope that you never enter politics. Cause if you ever did you would be slaughtered by the opposition. Keep this in mind flint, I've already predicted up to 2 responses ahead in this argument in this thread. And don't think that you are special in this case. I try to look ahead in every thread that I post in, it's in my nature to do so.

Okay, honestly, Flint... this seems to be a misuse of your banning rule.

1: If you are going to ban Lizon, at least address his arguments first.  Otherwise, to the average reader, it just looks like he made a post and you gave up.  For something as simple as Lizon trying to frame you as not being conservative...

2: Perhaps you should try asking for an apology by Lizon first.  Resorting straight to a "not talking to you" ban is kind of like imprisoning people who double-park.

3: Now you're just starting to throw out those people who do give you intelligent discussions... you're going to run out of people to debate against if you throw out Lizon.