Topic: A method to train Liberals in Capitalism

Liberals often miss the good effects of Capitalism, therefore we must train them in knowledge of how capitalism benefits them.


I take three specific lines of the medical industry, or rather sisters to it.

They are eye glasses, dentists, and pharmacies. These three are integral to the medical industry, and yet... they are these least red-taped, the least subsidized, and yet also the the most capitalistic.

This trio can be how we end socialized medicine, if we can educate enough of the liberals out there.


Consider first eye glasses, indeed any eye care at all. When I was six I was hit in the eye by a hard-ball while playing base ball. The guy who hit it was our team super slugger, I am quite sure he is playing major leagues even know, he was always hitting home runs in little league. I had some damage to my retina. In fact I have some scars from this to this day in my eye, makes an interesting series of dots and such, in the form of a comet.

Back then to get eye care you truly had to go to a super specialist. The examinations cost a bit of money, and the equipment was arcane and complicated. Few could work the examinations, let alone make glasses to fit people.

Then there are the glasses themselves, you had a limited set of frames to choose from (by far much less than what you can get from any single maker now!), and if you were unlucky you got... the bottle bottom glasses. Yes those thick ugly glasses that everyone mocked. Surely anyone who grew up in that time, or lived to see them know what I am talking about. And to get your glasses made would cost hundreds of dollars. Your parents would tell you "Do not lose those, we cannot afford another!" in my neighborhood to kids who had glasses. People often preferred to go without glasses, even if it was hard to see, or even a little painful... such was the hatred of glasses back then. I also remember the indents, that never seemed to go away, where the thicker glasses, heavier glasses sat.

Contacts were an option, though you had to add saline solution to them each time you wanted to put them in, they were designed to last about a year, and had issues of their own.


Now glasses are ultra thin, they have ultra-violet protections added, and anti-scratch. They are light, and come in some many shapes, sizes, and colors as to beguile the imagination. Visits to eye doctors takes but a moment, where they can determine what you need, and get it done in as little as 15 minutes. Costs are down tremendously, and even to the point where places advertise a long-term set of glasses for less than what most would pay for a good meal out.


Now let us talk of Dentists, the jape of all painful sounding jokes, they are a place most used to fear. I remember the bulky braces my sister got, and her complaints of how they felt. I also remember there were two options for pain relief when doing your visit, a shot or funny gas. The tools were limited too, and the options for fillings was silver or gold.

I just got done in a modern dentist office. The chair massaged my back while I lay down in it, the xray machine posed no hazards to me, was small and easily used by anyone, the full mouth xray was even easy to understand, and the tools were many and very capable. Some shot water as they cleaned to keep a good view open for the dentist, some whitened my teeth, removing stains that had been there for a few years, I had a choice of fillings, including a natural tooth color filling, and if I had sought something which needed painkillers there was a wide assortment of options, including a pre-treatment so they could give the shots with less pain, and stronger ones than were available when I had my four wisdom teeth pulled at once in the Army seventeen years ago.

The computers they used in their operation were very adaptable, and very up to date, they had excellent lighting, and service was excellent.



But let me talk of pharmacies before I continue on dentistry... we must first describe the differences, then describe WHY the differences.


If you are allergic to Penicillin you used to have limited choices. I remember well these refrigerated medicines which were one of two antibiotics I could take when I was a child. Yes we have come a far ways from there, and this is good. But the medicines do not make up the pharmacies story, it is the pharmacies themselves that make up the story here. I remember well going to the hospital each and every time for medicines, or a drug store. These were the only options, there was nothing else. Prices on medicines were high back then, not just from the cost to make them, but due to limited locations... perhaps I am going to quick on this, but I shall proceed none-the-less. What started bringing the prices down was not laws, was not subsidies, was not the makers of our medicines, but instead it was the final part of the supply chain, the pharmacies that started bringing prices down.

Yes the lowly pharmacy. You see it started with a pharmacy in a Safeway, or a Kroger, or any of the general stores. Who truly knows which was first, nor does it matter. What matters is that instead of five or six annoying places to go, you now had a dozen, then two dozen, then endless options of where to go. The ease of getting medicines kept rising, and those pharmacies which offered lower prices, better service, or both would get more customers. The profits each store saw in these pharmacies also made them seek to obtain a bigger slice of the pie, or just a slice of it!



Now competition brought pharmacies to be better pricing so much, that when Walmart declared for $5.00 generic prescriptions, others followed suit to just keep in the game. Profits might be lower by far, but this is the free market in action.

The same happened with eye glasses, and with dentistry. When no longer was the practice of these trades limited to hospitals, when anyone could compete, and did compete, we saw prices drop and quality (and customer service) go up. \


There are twenty to twenty five big hospitals in Portland Oregon, if there were instead eighty small to medium hospitals we would see an increase in quality, a decrease in cost, and we shall benefit.




Now I challenge you, the reader, can you describe that which others have, of how availability has changed the music industry?

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

2 (edited by Justinian I 11-Mar-2010 04:55:57)

Re: A method to train Liberals in Capitalism

It's impossible to argue against the efficiency of free-markets

But just to annoy you, I love Planned Parenthood. There is government involvement and subsidies, but I can efficiently get STD tests for free. I have to wait a week for an appointment, and I wait 15 minutes at the latest to see the doctor (all are women).

Re: A method to train Liberals in Capitalism

a free market needs some restrictions. first of all to prevent monopolies or anti-competitive agreements. exspecially the pharmaceutical industry is infamous for their monopolies and anti-competitive agreements. new drugs are protected by patents for years and decades, leading to far too high prices. in cases when patents have run out, companies made agreements to keep the prices up and their profits high.

Re: A method to train Liberals in Capitalism

Well, Einstein will counter that government interference allowed those monopolies to form to begin with. Of course, even in a perfectly competitive market, I am not convinced that a monopoly never would form and engage in activities that eliminated competition in a state with minimal government.

Re: A method to train Liberals in Capitalism

The ONLY regulation you need is "If a company has 1/3 the world market, 1/2 the national market, 2/3 the State market then you force them to split in half, into new companies"

That is the ONLY regulation you need. Each gets usage of the prior companies IP (Intellectual Property), they split assets and personnel as needed, and voila.

I would use this on Microsoft in a heart beat by the way.

This system would keep unfair competition from existing, via monopolistic powers. No other regulations are needed, as market forces, when there is no way to make a monopoly, will bring prices down.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: A method to train Liberals in Capitalism

Well, then, Flint, you just acknowledged in that last post that the government needs additional regulations to protect intellectual property rights...

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: A method to train Liberals in Capitalism

No because this would be a 'dwindling' of existing regulations to near null. It would remove most of the powers of regulation, and make it only benefit society, not the government per say which seems to think it should always get it's cut (Like EU against Microsoft.)

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: A method to train Liberals in Capitalism

oh I misread your post. No it would not require an increase in IP right protections, each company can use the IP of the previous single company, and this means they would compete with eachother on the same IP (if one wants to license all rights for a penny then so be it, this would be the right of either of the two companies with the same IP rights. No regulation of it would be required, existing Patent and Trademark and Copyright laws could remain unaltered.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: A method to train Liberals in Capitalism

Capitalism only works if these 5 steps are followed.

1. Demand for product.
2. Production of product.
3. Sales of product.
4. Purchase of product.
5. Use of product.

Remove any of these and capitalism fails.

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

Re: A method to train Liberals in Capitalism

And how is that different from... any other mode of production of goods in a society?

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: A method to train Liberals in Capitalism

Key... care to define use? Do I absolutely need to use a product I purchased, or is it possible I may decide I did not need that product later and never have used it?


This is for all those times you frustrated me tongue

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

12 (edited by Sabaoon2 12-Mar-2010 21:55:25)

Re: A method to train Liberals in Capitalism

Why Capitalism is not the answer:

1. The wealth of the earth belongs to all men or to none. Under capitalism, property is concentrated into the hands of relatively few well-off people, leaving the many with nothing and at the mercy of the rich for work, charity, etc. This leads to gross inequality, exploitation and misery. Nor is it economically efficient, as the rich have so much already they have no incentive to use their land productively. Socialism seeks to redistribute wealth and to ensure that the means of production are at the service of the whole of society, so that all can benefit and none will go without.

2. Many could be motivated to work by a wish to aid their fellow man. Over time, as the benefits of this better way of life become obvious, all will. The impulse to share wealth and material amongst the community, to support all, leaving none behind, is one of the purest mankind can experience. It is not merely possible

Re: A method to train Liberals in Capitalism

Sabaoon,

You're using the language of human rights, which can not be empirically tested and is therefore is to be thrown to the flames.

I value myself and my own power.

14 (edited by Zarf BeebleBrix 12-Mar-2010 22:14:29)

Re: A method to train Liberals in Capitalism

Justinian,

Under that definition, what can be empirically tested, and why?

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

15 (edited by Justinian I 12-Mar-2010 22:20:20)

Re: A method to train Liberals in Capitalism

I didn't give a definition. The bottom line is that a source other than people for human rights can not be empirically tested. You can say "I value having these rights" but you can not say "these rights are absolute and exist independently of what people think." In short, Mr. Socialist values equality. I value inequality to my benefit. It's just that he's the one deluded in to thinking he has the moral high ground.

Re: A method to train Liberals in Capitalism

@ Einstein

Well gee wiz YES you have to use the product.  Other people see you using the product, then yah they'll go, "HEY that's a really neat item, I should get one," and then buy one themselves.  If you use the product and notice how good it does, that means you'll buy more, making yourself a repeat customer. 

Which of course the more you buy, the more money in circulation, and the more money in circulation then the better the economy becomes.  Christ this is simple Economics 101.  Simple for simpletons Economics 101.  Economics for Dummy's.  Are you just that ignorant to the USE of common items used by every sonofabitch in this country?

Fine, buy your deodorant, and then decide not to use it.  No wonder your stinking up the place.  And that shampoo?  Talk about flakey hair, start using Head and Shoulders. 

Oh and I suppose that hamburger you purchased to cook to eat...you really don't need to cook and use it do you, becoming a wasteful member of society.

Sure, you can buy something and not use it, but i'd say, "Why'd you waste your money in the first place, are you stupid?"

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

Re: A method to train Liberals in Capitalism

how am i on einstein's ignore list, but Deci not?

Re: A method to train Liberals in Capitalism

Deci's on his shit list.  Flint says that Deci and Iluvatar are the same person.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...