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Re: Partax + pop = win

Interesting thoughts from everyone, just what i wanted with this thread. As you say Genesis, we shall just compare  the best race for a banker and it started as pop-banking, pax or not.
I agree that my thread about Quantam is to put out my chin but without debate we doesnt get forward and im first one to listen to good arguments.
Still im not convinced to 100% even if i know from experience Rev is best when you talk about highest income. What i tried to put in here is also what Noir says about growth, time is vital but also another thing, its not the goal for every banker to have higest income. In fams there is one mainbanker and the others support with what they produce, the more the better but its not often you have 2 bankers at same income on top.
Question is, is it faster and cheaper and does it pay back more to fam with quantam, pax or Rev?
Im not the man to do the simula here (or i dont have the time to do it) but i still know that quantam has bigger pop faster than Rev (and cheaper) and definitely compared to Pax. Wardancer has the fastest growth but no chance to hang on there with fam and there isnt any to.s either so wardancer is out of discussion.

Finally i do agree with you Noir about Rev in the long run, no discussion there, maybe a quantam-pop is a better choise as second banker than a custom CF? Time will tell, if fam agrees i will test this next round:)

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2004-05-24     Graduated from Virgo with flying colors!

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Re: Partax + pop = win

Noir wrote:
about Quantam Nandro, please think twice about that pop growth is really of VERY little value, since a good popper that switches in a good way from CFs will know how to work around it. You ismply cannot calculate it the way you did, and say all planets start at 250 base pop and take it directly from there, because that is simply not how people play pop banker. There is a value gained from the better science, but its just simply outweighed by the advantage of the higher race income bonus. Im not saying Quantams are bad, just that revalon seem a lot better to me.

Now its getting very deep Noir:)  Quantam also have faster growth which you miss here. after 100ticks quantam has 100k pop and rev 52k, income is 2819 for rev and 4652:- for quantam from pop and racebonus. And yes, you have cf:s also that you raize (to what costs) and that can quantam have also but can it be so that quantam doesnt need cf.s to start with, or just build so few that costs for destroying is spendable?
Gah, this is free written from mind and im feeling a bit overheated atm, here im not the man to get the right calcs:)

To make it more correct we can calc with 10 planets or maybe just one. Reason i took 100 planets was because you put in 50k to.s and 50k lq.s and you have to put theme somewhere. heavy to have them in one single planet:)

Flag of Halland/Sweden
2004-05-24     Graduated from Virgo with flying colors!

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Re: Partax + pop = win

You can do it with 500 lq's and 500 to's Nandro, it's the same effect smile and you don't really need to take overbuilding into account in this situation, as the costs are the same for every race.

And no problem Noir, I know your language skills are really affected when all you think about are numbers tongue

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  • Noir
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Re: Partax + pop = win

i put 50k of each because it was what i had atm tongue

With the current way of playing pop banker, i dont feel the pop growth is hindering me much, thus i put little value into the increased growth Quantam has, The science is of a greater value than the pop growth, but i am still convinced Revs are better. Its not by a landslide, and you do haev a point about quantams being cheaper perhaps, but as for the partax, popping and growth in general is all about getting thoose few extra percentages that gives a huge difference over time. I believe eco wise quantam is better than partax, but inferior to revalons

LORD HELP OREGON

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  • Mace
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Re: Partax + pop = win

Actually Noir NWs and sizes now are lower after 3 weeks than the great players of the past. Not only that but they also started with 1/3rd of the start resources and cash we get now.
Only you come close to being close at the moment.. add 150 planets and 200k nw and you are around where I was in round 10. Of course 1 week later I was raped down to almost nothing by 9 fams....
It is hard to configure a custom race to out pop-bank revalons. CF banking is also harder, though maybe 50%science can address some of the gap and reduce the cost of achieving a high economy science.

Partaxian is a race for opping, though again 50magic, 50 attack and resourcing makes more sense. Probably with low research. Oppers should almost never research.

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  • Noir
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Re: Partax + pop = win

Mace dont try to compare rounds or empires please...

Comparing current rounds to rounds where ppl buildt without overbuilding cost, or without IInfra build limits etc is not at all comparable. Everyone will admit the game is at a higher level now, its simple development

LORD HELP OREGON

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  • Mace
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Re: Partax + pop = win

It is NOT at a higher level per se. Maybe a few players. And I say 'few'. But you now have a MUCH smaller player base.

Plus OB costs have not changed since the betas. Infra limits have been around for ages too. The differences between when I last played and now boil down to:
Resource science added
Droids/Soldiers amended
Start resources higher
Families max size smaller
Camaar race adjusted
OH added
and that is about all

That is over 6 years. Strats have altered little for many years, just polished as the same players play together a lot. The threat of attacking is lower now than years ago, as the few big fams there are all NAP before the round begins... this means resource prices in MW now are considerably lower than the histotircal trend, banking becomes cheaper, etc.

This is no slight to any players' achievements, especially your own. But do accept the facts.

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  • Noir
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Re: Partax + pop = win

I agree that there is a much smaller player base, so the overall skill level might be lower, but the top players now posess more knowledge etc, specially about banking than before i believe. But theese round to round comparisons have been tried before, by myself aswell, and we always fail tongue

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: Partax + pop = win

IC is a game of activity over skill.  Many moons ago... there were 3000+ people playing.  Say ten percent were very active... makes 300 active players.  Compare that to now adays and... well there is a large difference.  The thing about NWs and planet counts being higher years back is true,  but just about every family now plays with a family banking system.  This banking system hinders the hyper active as they are always funding those who only drop in a few times a week.  So even though the family is now stronger, the individual players are no longer as relevent (or as big) as they used to be.

Oh, and to weigh in on the whole revs vs pax thing.... The mention of revlons isn't even worthy to be brought up in a Pax thread.  The mods should forum ban anyone who proforms this type of blasphamy.

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Re: Partax + pop = win

partax is the best pop base banker for one its the safest(people is going to have to load up on wizzards to hit a partax pop) and it dangerest to other bankers (partax pop banker is going to have aload of wizards)

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Re: Partax + pop = win

banking is about making cash not defending. pax lack so much relevant to pop that the defence for eventual opping attacks is minor.
Both quantam and Rev makes much more cash much faster and as pop banking research is vital more than any other race therfor quantam is better choise.
Incomebonus is pretty equal to quantam and same handicap compared to rev but since pop grows faster income comes faster for quantam compared to pax.

Quantam regrows faster than any other and how often/round does your pop get killed in peacetime?

If a pax has 100 wizzies rev needs 200 and quantam 250 to be protected in wartime, peacetime just around 5% of nw.

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2004-05-24     Graduated from Virgo with flying colors!

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Re: Partax + pop = win

U can do more spells than a revalons! but u will fail most of them due to ur nw and pc, so u have to rebuild wizz or become an easier target for ennemies oppers.
During a round a popper is opped 3 times, once by an angry ennemy or someone wanting to appear in UNI that takes all fam bank to do 7 spells on u, a war where the guy fails 1/2 and a war were u are in serious troubles against wizz opper. That's 10 days in a round, u lose nothing/some/all ur income, u can still sell the food the resourcer u have on ur arse makes between 0.2 and 0.3, the other 50 days of the round when u are not opped a revalon makes so much more than a pax...
The question of being safer is stupid for me, when u think as a fam...ennemies pax won't be abble to op u, well... they will OH 2 CF bankers or CPFF ur attackers without having to jump high to kill ur shitty income of 30%...so all round u will have made much less than a revalons(and ppl know that it's first tick(s) of war that are important, not upkeep during war) and if u are not opped it will be other players in ur fam that will be...

'Success! The realm of Genesis has been reduced to dust! Our forces are leaving the planet though, as it is scheduled for demolition to make way for a new hyperspace bypass.'

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