Re: Haiti Earthquake

> xeno syndicated wrote:

> Unemployment:

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article5607656.ece

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/16/business/main5314568.shtml

http://www.hindustantimes.com/The-worst-isn-t-over/H1-Article1-491517.aspx

"The total number of unemployed people stands now at 241 million. This is accompanied by a sharp drop in the real wages of the people who have jobs. This declined from 4.3 per cent in 2007 to 1.4 in 2008. Both these put together have, according to the World Bank, pushed an additional 89 million people into poverty taking the global figure to above 1.5 billion."



World unemployment shows 241 million unemployed? Thats only 3.6% of the world population. Thats a pretty good number.

I'm sure most of those people also choose not to work, they scam the system on a daily basis.

Song of the Day: In My Head - By Jason Derulo

Re: Haiti Earthquake

might seem harsh, but some people are born luckier then others. If you really want a world without starvation,... you'd have to have a planet 10 times this size, and much more natural resources. Sounds a bit lala dreamland to me.

I'll never send any money to Haiti, because i don't feel anything for the people there. Does this make me satan? No, just another 23yr old european guy that's got a great job, and doesn't want to think about all the bad stuff in the world. I'll also never complain about a country not doing enough to rid the world of starvation tongue

Re: Haiti Earthquake

First, the US is a very different notion from those who are running the US.  The US (and any other country for that matter) is NOT defined by the regime running it.  If I tend to single out the blindness of US policy makers it is because the blind US policy makers are the one leading the rest of the world's blind policy makers.

Re: Haiti Earthquake

Second, serenity, you need to change professions.  Anyone who thinks the way you do about the value of human life and could classify ANY one of us as a nobody, should not be playing around directing airplanes full of people.  You probably think most people are nobodies, and not worth the oxygen they breath.  Seriously, change professions.

Re: Haiti Earthquake

Third, the stat about the 250 mill or so unemployed is referring to those populations in the developed world / those countries that publish stats.

56

Re: Haiti Earthquake

>First, the US is a very different notion from those who are running the US.

You don't define the US either. If you have a problem than go get sponsors start a charity and help Haiti.

Rehabilitated IC developer

Re: Haiti Earthquake

> xeno syndicated wrote:

> Second, serenity, you need to change professions.  Anyone who thinks the way you do about the value of human life and could classify ANY one of us as a nobody, should not be playing around directing airplanes full of people.  You probably think most people are nobodies, and not worth the oxygen they breath.  Seriously, change professions.



Lol, no I simply think little "rebels" like you are worthless. Once again you whine and complain about how the US responded to Haiti when it didnt have to, and youve done absolutely nothing. You havent donated time, you havent donated money, nothing. Now Im sure you will try and say you have, but if you had actually done it you would have said so 8+ hours ago when I stated you hadnt.

As for my profession, well Im damn good at it so I think I will stick with it.

Song of the Day: In My Head - By Jason Derulo

Re: Haiti Earthquake

> Schniepel wrote:

> "I have nothing against helping others out, but it see s America spends much more money helping others out than helping our own country....charity starts at home, and if u can't afford to help yourself out then you have no business trying to bail everyone else out."

Think back one year.. think about how much money was spend to bail out american banks and such.. then think again...


U proved my point.  We can't maintain what we have.  We borrowed money because our economy sucks, and we tried to give it a boost...so far it hasn't helped much.  Even though the USA has a bunch of problems of it's own, people just expect us to solve everyone else's problems as well.  If we keep handing over our hard earned money then we will never crawl out of the hole we are in.

If a man speaks in the woods and no woman is around is he still wrong?

59 (edited by xeno syndicated 18-Jan-2010 09:11:27)

Re: Haiti Earthquake

"Once again you whine and complain about how the US responded to Haiti"

Once again you are equating yourself and the rest of the chain of command as the US.  Stop doing that.  You people are not the USofA.  The people of the USA are the USA.

"youve done absolutely nothing." 

Again, you don't get it, do you?  Why did I talk about unemployment, housing bubble, lower-standards of living, bailouts with tax dollars, etc.?  Because that is what we have already donated.  We've donated our diminished standards of living, donated unemployment, donated starvation, donated our childrens' and their childrens' futures, etc., all so that you can keep going about your @#%-ed up way of doing things.  We've paid enough already.  I'm not giving you twits any more of my money than is absolutely necessary.  You just waste it on idiotic infrastructure projects like airports.

Besides, even if I believed in you people to do what is right with my money instead of just bailing out your buddies on Wallstreet, Seattle and Detroit with it, I couldn't give you any money.  Your #@%@-ed up banks and communications systems don't allow me to.

Oh, and I am not a rebel.  I'm not trying to change anything.  It's changing all by itself.  Fun to watch.  How is it changing, you might ask?  Well, now, due to online forums, millions if not billions of people can make their voices heard.

Re: Haiti Earthquake

> xeno syndicated wrote:

> "Once again you whine and complain about how the US responded to Haiti"

Once again you are equating yourself and the rest of the chain of command as the US.  Stop doing that.  You people are not the USofA.  The people of the USA are the USA.



Yep, that makes no sense.



And once again, you moan about how the US took too long to help Haiti and isnt doing enough, and you still havent done anything. Good job being a hypocrite. And tons of people are able to donate via internet and other means, you must be a technologically retarded person. I love when I'm right.




"Oh, and I am not a rebel.  I'm not trying to change anything.  It's changing all by itself.  Fun to watch.  How is it changing, you might ask?  Well, now, due to online forums, millions if not billions of people can make their voices heard."

Yes, unfortunately we have to listen to the anti-US idiots over and over because morons scream the loudest.

Song of the Day: In My Head - By Jason Derulo

Re: Haiti Earthquake

When the f$$$ did anyone donate unemployment and money to the us?  You are ignorant if u think by sitting on the couch without a job u are helping us out.  Lol. The only country I know if that the us got money from was china, and it was a loan.  I'm sorry if your life sucks, but u are the first person to try and change it xeno.  But I guess it is easier to blame someone else for your problems than accept responsibility and try to change it.  Whining about your life on forums is not gonna get u anywhere.  Negative attitudes never help a situation.  In moments of great trials is when people show their true self.  U can either be positive and help out with what u can or have a bitter attitude and do nothing....all the posting u or I do on these forums will not change anything.  It's action that speak, and as serenity mentioned u didn't do anything.

If a man speaks in the woods and no woman is around is he still wrong?

62 (edited by Lizon 19-Jan-2010 00:34:11)

Re: Haiti Earthquake

Xeno is still on these boards? I thought he was ran out of here along with his magical robots and illusions of grandeur.

"My question is, why can't they air-drop crates of bottled water?  It doesn't seem anyone is doing any sort of air-dropping of aid?  Why not?"

Actually they did try to air drop stuff onto the ground. People rushed the copters and they were forced to turn back. As a pilot your priority is the safety of your crew and aircraft over anything else. They are the ones reporting to their superiors on the ground to the situation. If they report that air dropping is too dangerous then that will be the basis of not doing air drops. I'm more liable to believe the decisions of the people on the ground more than your assumption.

"Why is their priority to get government reinstated and not air-dropping water?"

Logistics and assessments are priority when dealing with a situation like this. You would make a very poor rescue planner if this is your opinion. You assets the situation, identify which areas need the most help, bring in the proper logistics support to get your assets where they need to be as fast as possible, deploy.

If you don't do this you get a situation to where assets are not where their supposed to be. Lets say for instance we follow your plan, and just drop food and water where ever:

People see stuff dropping.
They rush to it.
With no security there you got about a 50/50 chance of a riot starting.
People hear about aid going to X or Y place.
People begin moving around to get to those places, many times putting themselves at risk.
Roadways become clogged up because people are moving slowing down aid distribution.
Snowball effect, aid can't get through, aid gets distributed dis-proportionally, air drops can't sustain supply, riots ensue.

It's that simple really. Certainly this is a worst scenario than planning things out, getting roadways cleared and setting up staging areas to serve as many people as possible. Also keep in mind that these aid channels are going to need to be open for weeks if not months or years, not days. They need to have a system in place to not only serve the needs of the people for the immediate future but long term during the rebuilding process. You can't do this blindly else you'll simply slow down the process.

Why wasn't there a plan for this?

I'm sure the Hatian government did have a plan, but having a plan can only help so much. It's like having the perfect winning strategy to win a game of chess then your opponent goes and smashes the board to pieces.

"Their decision is rooted in prejudice against not only Haitians, but ALL of us regular, commoners, who couldn't possibly do anything properly without their precious and all-important security, infrastructure, distribution system, regulations, in other words, their control and authority."

Two things.

1. You are not a regular folk, they are smarter than you are.
2. Their getting this advise from the aid agencies and people on the ground.

They tried doing it your way, they rushed aid in without thinking. Guess what happened? They asked the US military to take control of the situation cause everything was too chaotic. Once they did that aid started rushing in all of a sudden and now people are complaining about not getting it out fast enough? We already saw what happened when you do something without planning it out. I doubt they want a repeat of that situation.

"What should happen is within 4 hours of such a disaster you'd have multinational air forces dropping hundreds of thousands of crates of bottled water over the disaster zone."

So you would put on hold all of the rescue teams and doctors and medical supplies that would save people's lives? Also where would these resources come from? It's not like there are stores of supplies locked up everywhere just in case of a once every 200 year earthquake. Next the only areas within a 4 hour radius of Haiti would be most of the Caribbean nations and the US, maybe Mexico. Knock that down to 2 hours cause it would take at least 2 hours to get the planes, crew, supplies, loaded up and fueled and ready to go. Within 2 hours of Haiti you only got 4 countries, the US, Cuba, The Dominican Republic, and the Bahamas.

Out of those 4 only the US has both the means and the way to move large amount of resources as was necessary to this crisis. Now I know your argument:

The US should have been prepared, it's the fault of the dammed rich nations......

Blah blah blah. First we won't go in there without asking first, it's called respecting sovereign rights. Second, nobody plans for a once every 200 year earthquake, and you don't keep stores of resources just sitting on airport tarmacs just in case something happens.

Within the first 37 hours of the quake there were US coast guard aircraft running from Guantanamo Bay to Haiti taking initial assessments. Resources were only just beginning to trickle into the country. We didn't have permission at that point from the Haitian government to begin large scale operations and we still were unsure as to how we were going to get those resources in. Was the airport operations? What about the navel ports?

What if the airport runway wasn't serviceable and planes just flew off to the country without figuring out if they could land to begin with? That would be pretty stupid. Some people did take off to Port-of-Prince as soon as they heard. Do you know what happened to them? Their planes are clogging up the runway cause they don't have the fuel to get back, they thought the airport was going to have fuel for them. Yeah, real smart jumping without thinking.

I could go on and on about how stupid your idea is but I really don't need to. Why? Cause we are doing things the right way and there isn't a single thing you or anyone else can do about it? Are lives going to be lost? Yes. Could things have been done better, it's too early to tell. But when it comes to a large crisis in hindsight things could always have been better in one form or another. But when you're in the NOW, you have to make your decisions based on the information you have on hand. In that regard they are doing the best they can and doing a pretty good job at it. Now STFU and goto bed, it's past your bedtime.

Fear not the Darkness, for without it there is no Light. Embrace the Light, for it brings forth Darkness. Embrace both, to embrace the gift of Life. ~Kai Master Creed
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Re: Haiti Earthquake

Lol@ xeno. Applauds Lizon.  It looks like somebody has some common sense.  That is more than I can say for xeno.

If a man speaks in the woods and no woman is around is he still wrong?

Re: Haiti Earthquake

quick fact:

there is a special k9 unit in haiti.  they are not cadaver dogs, they are specially train to track and locate live injured people.  if the dog stummbles upon a deseased body, the dog will ignore the body and continue to search for the living humans only.
________

i thought that was interesting...

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

65 (edited by Lizon 19-Jan-2010 00:59:15)

Re: Haiti Earthquake

You really shouldn't take Xeno seriously. He has a mental disorder of some sort. He sits here on his computer like a lazy bum telling people how bad they are and how great his ideas are and yet does nothing that represents the ideals behind those ideas. I know for me, Ive donated to relief causes, both monetary and through specific items (clothing, food, toys, ect). I've volunteered before for charitable organizations.

I've also been on the receiving end of charity before, when I was a child my family needed food stamps for a short time in the 80's, and got clothes from the local church. So I know what it means to give and what it means to receive. Having lived through Katrina, Rita, and Ike I know how it feels to do without. I couldn't come home for a week during Ike and once I got home I was in the dark for about a week after that. Luckily my company helped us out with breakfast daily and hotel costs while we were away.

My views are based not merely on logic, but experience. I'm practical. Which is why I have no quarrels with how the operation in Haiti is going. Their doing a fantastic job.

So yeah, don't take Xeno seriously, this is the same guy who said that people would be happier living in treehouses and insisted that his "Recourse Economy" wasn't Marxism (it was btw).

Fear not the Darkness, for without it there is no Light. Embrace the Light, for it brings forth Darkness. Embrace both, to embrace the gift of Life. ~Kai Master Creed
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Re: Haiti Earthquake

i recieved 16k from hurricane katrina.  fema handed that shit out like candy...(after rigorous paperwork two days after we lost everything)

anyways... xeno isn't that far off.  in a way, he made me think about it a bit.   america is quick to help relief efforts in natural disasters because thats what were good at. (kinda like the big fat kid in gym class, he cant play hockey worth shit, but when football time comes, yeah baby!).  the upper class of this country is a disaster and they get away with it because they make the middle class feel like they are one of them.  but fema isn't structure to help economic crisis, the state governments are the only organization that can help.  but they wont.

ATTN middle working class: your not rich, your not a republican, so stop acting like a dumbass when someone rich makes you feel good! it just gets sad...

this rant has been brought to you in part by the US Navy, "stfu, or we'll get our marines to protect us while we bomb you!"

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

Re: Haiti Earthquake

Here's the one thing one forgot Ehawk. In other nations you look at the upper class with distain because you feel like they lord over you and you have no chance to reach their level of wealth and status. In the US you aspire to become one of the upper class because it is possible to obtain their wealth and status.

That in itself is a fundamental difference in the mentality of Americans and the rest of the world. You find this mentality in a few other nations but not many more. Researching the different views on Wealth between the US and other countries like India or Russia would be a interesting research project now that you think about it.

Fear not the Darkness, for without it there is no Light. Embrace the Light, for it brings forth Darkness. Embrace both, to embrace the gift of Life. ~Kai Master Creed
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Re: Haiti Earthquake

jer wrote:
Even though the USA has a bunch of problems of it's own, people just expect us to solve everyone else's problems as well.  If we keep handing over our hard earned money then we will never crawl out of the hole we are in.


-name me some countries who dont have problems and/or could not name at least 2 better purposes for their money
-it's not like anyone's forced to help anyone *rolleyes
-helping is part of economics, and politics, it aint that simple
-no amount of money reserved for foreign help could help you crowl out of your hole any faster, or less painfull
-you should vote for a system that does the least harm to your hard earned cashies
-also think of circumstances you re living in, in terms of facilities and infrastructure, education etc, you pay for it through taxes as well, your hard erned money isnt just for paying politicians'privet jet flights

till the end of time..

69 (edited by xeno syndicated 21-Jan-2010 17:06:22)

Re: Haiti Earthquake

"http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jan/20/haiti-water-us-occupation"

"
Haiti needs water, not occupation

The US has never wanted Haitian self-rule, and its focus on 'security concerns' has hampered the earthquake aid response



On Monday, six days after the earthquake in Haiti, the US Southern Command finally began to drop bottled water and food from an air force C-17. US defence secretary Robert Gates had previously rejected such a method because of "security concerns".

If people do not get clean water, there could be epidemics of water-borne diseases that could greatly increase the death toll. But the US is now sending 10,000 troops and seems to be prioritising "security" over much more urgent, life-and-death needs. This in addition to the increase of 3,500 UN troops scheduled to arrive.

On Sunday morning the world-renowned humanitarian group Doctors Without Borders complained that a plane carrying its portable hospital unit was re-routed by the US military through the Dominican Republic. This would cost a crucial 48 hours and an unknown number of lives.

On Sunday, Jarry Emmanuel, air logistics officer for the UN's World Food Programme, said: "There are 200 flights going in and out every day, which is an incredible amount for a country like Haiti ... But most flights are for the US military."

Yet Lieutenant General PK Keen, deputy commander of the US Southern Command, reports that there is less violence in Haiti now than there was before the earthquake hit. Dr Evan Lyon, of Partners in Health, a medical aid group famous for its heroic efforts in Haiti, referred to "misinformation and rumours

70 (edited by Lizon 21-Jan-2010 17:28:55)

Re: Haiti Earthquake

Read the comments in that article Xeno. Most of the people there disagree with the writer. ^.^ I like how the writer distorted the facts all over the place. Though that is what he gets paid to do.

Note: You do realize that The Guardian is the Fox News of Great Britain? Find a better source next time.

Fear not the Darkness, for without it there is no Light. Embrace the Light, for it brings forth Darkness. Embrace both, to embrace the gift of Life. ~Kai Master Creed
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Re: Haiti Earthquake

Who told you the resources of the United States were at YOUR disposal? If the Haiti government wants us out, out we'll go.  If they take us in on our terms, wtf are you to object?  You think Commodity X ought to be airdropped into Haiti, go fly it into Haiti.  We won't shoot you down. I mean, do you realize what you're saying? THE ENTIRE FREAKING WORLD cannot match the airlift capacity of the idled remnant of the wartime United States Air Force??? Really???

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Haiti Earthquake

"Who told you the resources of the United States were at YOUR disposal?"

He's a Marxist, he thinks everything is the property of the people. That's why he thinks the way he does.

Fear not the Darkness, for without it there is no Light. Embrace the Light, for it brings forth Darkness. Embrace both, to embrace the gift of Life. ~Kai Master Creed
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Re: Haiti Earthquake

Xeno,

Haven't you bothered to consider that the Chinese government has brainwashed you?

Re: Haiti Earthquake

> Justinian I wrote:

> Xeno,

Haven't you bothered to consider that the Chinese government has brainwashed you?




China would never try to brainwash its citizens... what are you talking about.... /sarrcasm.

Song of the Day: In My Head - By Jason Derulo

Re: Haiti Earthquake

>>Long before the earthquake, Haiti's plight has been comparable to that of many homeless people on city streets in the US: too poor and too black to have the same effective constitutional and legal rights as other citizens.<,

I presume this guy is not an American, not a head of state, and not living on US soil. Where do I donate to throw a Hellfire up his ass?

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.