1 (edited by xeno syndicated 16-Jan-2010 01:00:32)

Topic: Haiti Earthquake

So the airport and port are clogged.  Aid isn't getting through.  More people are beginning to die from water-born diseases.  The aid effort seems firstly concerned with trying to get the government restored, and, secondly, establishing some semblance of order at the port and airport, and, finally, getting aid trucked in and literally 'handed' out.

My question is, why can't they air-drop crates of bottled water?  It doesn't seem anyone is doing any sort of air-dropping of aid?  Why not?

Why is their priority to get government reinstated and not air-dropping water?

Re: Haiti Earthquake

Because who's going to organize the air dropping of water?

Rehabilitated IC developer

3 (edited by xeno syndicated 16-Jan-2010 01:12:21)

Re: Haiti Earthquake

It's not that they don't have the capability to air-drop aid.  It's that some idiot decided air-dropping aid would cause riots:

"It seems to me that without having any structure on the ground, in terms of distribution, that an airdrop is simply going to lead to riots as people try and go after that stuff,

Re: Haiti Earthquake

So you're unhappy with the Haiti Government's response to the earthquake?

Rehabilitated IC developer

5 (edited by xeno syndicated 16-Jan-2010 01:31:30)

Re: Haiti Earthquake

"http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=67263"

It makes me sick.  These idiots think their airports, their precious governments, their precious distribution systems are so completely necessary, of such paramount importance, that without them, Haitians couldn't possibly take care of themselves, couldn't possibly distribute aid effectively. 

Their decision is rooted in prejudice against not only Haitians, but ALL of us regular, commoners, who couldn't possibly do anything properly without their precious and all-important security, infrastructure, distribution system, regulations, in other words, their control and authority.

In fact, it is so important it is worth sacrificing the lives of the 50k or so who will die in the next day due to lack of drinking water in order to first set up their precious systems of control:

"

Re: Haiti Earthquake

>These idiots think their airports, their precious governments, their precious distribution systems are so completely necessary, of such paramount importance, that without them, Haitians couldn't possibly take care of themselves, couldn't possibly distribute aid effectively. 

Kind of like getting water to the sinks and showers in your house without pipes.

Rehabilitated IC developer

7 (edited by xeno syndicated 16-Jan-2010 01:37:30)

Re: Haiti Earthquake

"Kind of like getting water to the sinks and showers in your house without pipes."

Wrong.  That analogy is faulty.

If you're already standing in a waterfall, all you need to do is raise your head, open your mouth, and gulp.

Nations should be showering Haiti with air-drops of bottled water, hundreds of bottles of water per person, way more than necessary - an outrageous abundance of bottled water.  If that were to happen, there'd be no point in any Haitian having to hoard bottled water.  If there were an abundance of air-droped water, there'd be no rioting for it.

Instead, they're going to air-drop troops.

Re: Haiti Earthquake

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-01-15-general-criticizes-response_N.htm

"The next morning after the earthquake, as a military man of 37 years service, I assumed

Re: Haiti Earthquake

>Nations should be showering Haiti with air-drops of bottled water, hundreds of bottles of water per person, way more than necessary - an outrageous abundance of bottled water.


Greenpeace would assassinate someone if they spammed Haiti with that much plastic.

Rehabilitated IC developer

Re: Haiti Earthquake

airdrops might kill people

I think they have enough water most places to get by

you can drink the water in the top of your toilet tank

but I agree with the general, get the Haitians off their ass to walk the stuff in relays and cut your distribution needs

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Haiti Earthquake

"you can drink the water in the top of your toilet tank"

Toilets?  What toilets?  You mean toilets in this building?

http://www.sy-thetis.org/Thetis99/ToLimnos/55-low-s.jpg

12 (edited by xeno syndicated 16-Jan-2010 04:26:42)

Re: Haiti Earthquake

What should happen is within 4 hours of such a disaster you'd have multinational air forces dropping hundreds of thousands of crates of bottled water over the disaster zone.

Then, after DOUBLE the estimated necessary amount of water has been dropped over that disaster zone to sustain the ENTIRE population for the period of next phase of the disaster relief, drop troops and medical personal to establish Landing zones and field hospitals.  Then, drop more water EVERYWHERE with maps showing the location of the LZs / field hospitals.  You'd have to drop food at this point, too, else the field hospitals would get swarmed with not only the injured, but also hungry people.

I mean what the #@!% are these people in charge thinking.  Have they lost their minds?  Do they actually think you need to re-establish the government and infrastructure BEFORE you start delivering aid?  Are they that stupid?  Or do they intentionally want Haitians to die by the hundreds of thousands?

It seems as if it were up to them, they'd first get the first-class lounge of the airport re-staffed and restocked with their favorite whiskey and cigars, get the 5 star hotels repaired and re-staffed before they even think about saving the dehydrated 5 year old stumbling around in the street.  Hell.  They don't have medical teams on the ground, but they've probably got teams upon teams of people repairing the moving sidewalks in the airport terminal.  Instead of military medical teams establishing LZs and field hospitals, they have teams of people looking around for red carpets to lay down for the various dignitaries that will come to give speech.  Instead of field canteens cooks working to distribute safe food, they have the airborn divisions sun-tanning and playing volleyball on the tarmacs.

Re: Haiti Earthquake

>>What should happen is within 4 hours of such a disaster you'd have multinational air forces dropping hundreds of thousands of crates of bottled water over the disaster zone.  Then, after DOUBLE the estimated necessary amount of water has been dropped over that disaster zone to sustain the ENTIRE population for the period of next phase of the disaster relief,<<

You'd add to the debris?

>> drop troops and medical personal to establish Landing zones and field hospitals.<<

Hospitals set up by air can only be supplied by air

>>Then, drop more water EVERYWHERE with maps showing the location of the LZs / field hospitals.  You'd have to drop food at this point, too, else the field hospitals would get swarmed with not only the injured, but also hungry people.<<

They would anyhow, because you gotta throw supplies to the hospitals without roads up

>>I mean what the #@!% are these people in charge thinking.  Have they lost their minds?  <<

Nobody is in charge of Haiti


>>Do they actually think you need to re-establish the government and infrastructure BEFORE you start delivering aid?  Are they that stupid?  Or do they intentionally want Haitians to die by the hundreds of thousands?<<

If you don't stop 50,000 people from running up on your hospital demanding food, you don't feed them, and you don't have a working hospital.  Same iwth an airfield.  The populace is its own worst enemy.  The best thing Haiti can do is walk inland.  Despite the press hype this is not a hurricane or tsunami.  It is an earthquake.  It has a pretty narrow "blast radius".  Walk into the coutnryside, drink less polluted streams, get some food.  Stop concentrating in Port Au Prince

What they should do is some docks and airfield construction in Port Au Prince, and get aid centers beyond it, and urge- order people to move out of town to shanty towns outside.  supply those by air. tryvery hard to get roads through the city and supply the city by the port.  use locals for that effort

reduce concentration in the city
increase mobility in the city
rely on air transport to create shelters outside the city

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Haiti Earthquake

"Nations should be showering Haiti with air-drops of bottled water, hundreds of bottles of water per person, way more than necessary - an outrageous abundance of bottled water.  If that were to happen, there'd be no point in any Haitian having to hoard bottled water."

No point but they'd still do it.  Even if they had on the hour air drops people would be rushing in and grabbing as much water as they could because they wouldn't be thinking, "Well there's going to be another drop in an hour I'm ok for water until then." they'd be thinking, "I gotta grab water I don't know when the next drop will be."  People do not behave rationally after a disaster, they're scared and disoriented, expecting them to remain calm is foolish.

I've said it before people aren't that bright, panicked people less so.  Now I agree they should be giving them something but without people to control the distribution there would be utter chaos at every drop.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re: Haiti Earthquake

If people think "I gotta grab water I don't know when the next drop will be." it's because there isn't the expectation that these multinational disaster relief teams drop enough aid often enough.  Their track record is poor for successful relief, or at least their track record is at least questionable, and THAT'S why there are riots at air-drops.  If there were confidence in the multinational relief efforts; if there were a general confidence that in fact the multi-national disaster relief effort would successfull air-drop enough, there wouldn't be riots at air-drops.

The fact is that there isn't such confidence in the multi-national disaster relief agencies, and, obviously, for good reason.  And instead of the multi-national relief effort agencies taking responsibility themselves for this lack of confidence, they'll place the blame for the inevitability of riots on the desperate, rightly skeptical disaster victim.

16

Re: Haiti Earthquake

Xeno, get some sponsors start a charity and go do something about it.

Rehabilitated IC developer

Re: Haiti Earthquake

The earthquake cant have wrecked all water in haiti

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Haiti Earthquake

if i have time, i will read all previous posts.  but for now i would like to say...

i donated $10 using my cell phone.  anyone else?

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

Re: Haiti Earthquake

They've got enough money for water air-drops.  The US government's pledge alone of 100 million dollars is enough for 40 bottles of water per person for the whole population affected.

Re: Haiti Earthquake

its not as if drinking boiled stream water means certain leprosy

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Haiti Earthquake

I see no point in helping them. Help yourselves imo.

Song of the Day: In My Head - By Jason Derulo

Re: Haiti Earthquake

those haitians have had such a hard past, their bodies are better able to handle a little dirty water.  americans enjoy clean water.  if WE americans drink the water, we may become sick. but that dirty country will be just fine physically. hell bottled water might just be considered a luxury to most people.

the only thing i'm worried about is the post traumatic stress disorders that may cultivate in the country's youth

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

Re: Haiti Earthquake

Apathy is the best policy.

Re: Haiti Earthquake

more like the cheapest.

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

Re: Haiti Earthquake

@Serenity

Re "I see no point in helping them. Help yourselves imo."

Are you saying that we should fend for ourselves during natural disasters because America / other countries don't have a moral obligation to help us, or are you advocating that we should fend for ourselves when facing natural disasters and not even expect aid from anyone because America / other countries have proven to be so entirely incapable of providing aid that we would be better fending for ourselves?