@ Ehawk - now, there is a saying, there is no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole because he is praying with all his might he doesn't get hit.

now, there's a lovely quote from CS Lewis: "Of course it's easy enough to say that God seems absent at our greatest need because He is absent -- non-existent. But then why does He seem so present when, to put it quite frankly, we don't ask for Him?"

Ironically, an atheist believe's in something. What do you believe in Ehawk?

I consider myself agnostic, there's a god or greater being out there somewhere but hell if I know what or who it is. In the meantime I agree with your last assessment, that I respect life and death from an atheists' viewpoint (I move back and forth between atheism and agnosticism and christianity. I blame the weirdness of my life. A damn on/off switch is what it is.)

> Ehawk wrote:

>

wheather its fear of death, lonelyness, unhappyness etc., religion seems to be the human response to these situations.  ofcourse your not going to agree with me, your religious, its only natural that your going to view your belief structure in a more optimistic view.  MYSELF, an atheist, has the ability to look at religion from a different perspective.

you have time and again shown little understanding for religion.... i have time and again corrected false assumptions you have made, many of the time making you look like a fool. 

also, people arent born religious; i wasnt born believing in a God, and i have looked critically at religion many a times before and after i became religious...

what exactly is "false" in that statement? 

seriously, if your going to tell me i'm wrong about something, stop telling me i'm wrong and TELL me what the exact discrepancy is.

if you dont name precicely what you think is wrong with what i said, it just appears that you are just makeing some type of defensive arguement to protect your religious without explaination.
__
keep in mind, my statement was about the topic of why humans are religious, i was not talking about christianity only.  so please, entertian me

and STD's

Bleh, recently had a discussion with this bloke who apparently now thinks he's a genius, therefore he must not believe in a higher purpose.

There is only one reason why "intelligent" people don't believe in a "god": there's no proof.

Limiting yourself to things as proof is the same as limiting yourself to believing because a book told you so. You're only making yourself think inside a box. You're taking away your own creativity.
Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it's not there.

And I'm no deeply religious man, but I hate to think we're just put here by accident. We're a far superior race to all other living things on this dirtball and it's not like it's a good things we're on it. We're bleeding parasites.
And just saying it's impossible for there to be a "god" because it's not there is a tad taking the easy way out, if you ask me.

On the other hand I hate religious fanatics too. None of the old books ever claimed you should live in a certain way (go to church, pray to a higher person every day, convince everyone they're wrong and you're right), they just provide you with stories of how not to live. Just live a good life and you might be rewarded in the end. But because they're fanatics everywhere, spreading their idiotic ramblings of "the way to live, or "god/allah/insert other variable" will punish you, is not a reason for disbelieve. I know underdeveloped humans ruin most of the good things, like TV, but you must let that hold back your own creativity. It's what makes us human. Without creativity, we'd still be cavemen (and cavewomen).

Mrblonde as a point

I'm no deeply religious man, I went to christian school all my life. So I know the bible fairly well, and have a fairly decent understanding and interpretation of it, religious fanatics take things too far. WAY too far. Granted, the bible says we should spread the word, but doesn't mean we should live exactly according to this one thing. Add in the factor there were 2 covenants, and we're technically no longer under the "old" covenant, but rather the new one where we accept Jesus as our saviour and he saves us. Repent, blah blah, be humble and don't go around tossing stones at others because we're just as guilty.

The human mind is a scary thing. Mind and Brain are they the same? are they different? is one existent and the other a figment of the intensely powerful human brain? Curiousity killed the cat so they say. However, as humans, we're naturally curious, naturally creative. Sometimes its the curiousity that is our downfall, while others its the fear of what may or may not occur if we decide to act upon something. Why is it we fear the unknown? The questions we ask ourselves sometimes are "What if..." What if God didn't exist? what if he did? What if I choose the wrong faith? What if Allah does reward his faithful? Are allah and God the same? Are they at war? Is the 8 fold path truly the road to enlightenment? Was Eltara right? Where did winME go?

In the end all we are left with what if's and what nows?

Here's something for you all to think about: Look around you. Compare our society today to the society some 500 years ago. During the 1500's to the 1800's. And before and after. We have taken great steps in technology. We can level entire cities with 1 device. We can compute THOUSANDS of information in less than a minute. We can do sooooo much, yet compare our creativity to that of Michaelangelo, Raphael, Picasso, Van Gogh, Da Vinci and Monet! What has happened to us? Laziness has infiltrated us without our knowledge! we have been invaded and we don't even know it. What happened to us? What did we do to ourselves that we have fallen into such a state of...disrepair? This, "New Art" of today is childs work! I bet I could take a piece of paper, let me 3 month niece mess around with it and I  could sell it for thousands!

People in the US suffer from obesity, while people in Africa die hungry. The US has some of the most advanced technology, but is in major debt. The US has the most simplicity, yet the complexity of its law system is muddling. There's a party for everything and everyone! Party and Counter-party. You can't do something without someone complaining about it and taking it to the courts and having someone COMPLETELY uninvolved decide. What ever happened to freedom of choice?

People, I declare to you, something is wrong here! Something in the very air we breathe is wrong, its...almost unhealthy. What have we done? What are we to do now? What are we to say now? What...what can we do now?

I declare once more, What have we done?

ehawk, i think you mis-typed that. either you're asking if intelligent people that have a reason other then the lack of proof for beleiving that there is no a God are also thinking too much inside the box, or if they are thinking outside of the box...

as for the question, ehawk, you dont have to worry about this, because you're not an intelligent person. i know, a low blow....

i wasnt sure of the meanng, so i asked you to elaborate; and me calling you stupid was based completely off of event prior to the statement currently the topic of the thread....

ok, ehawk so your question is about "intelligent" people that would not believe in a God even if there was indisputable proof that there was a God?  and your question is if they would be thinking too much outside of the box.

correct?

so hypothetically there is indisputable proof that there is a God, but the people still wont believe in him because for example they believe that Humans are simply animals cursed with cognitive thought...

and you want to know if these people are too far outside of the box.... no. i would say not. if there was indisputable proof that God existed and they didnt believe it, it would be because they are stuck in a notion, in a school of thought, they are so in the box, that when there is a new box, they are left behind...

> Ehawk wrote:

> @mr blonde:
what about the "inteligent" people who choose not to believe, not because lack of proof?  Some people recognize that humans are merely "animals cursed with cognitive thought"

whould they be considered thinking too much outside the box?

----------------

Not necessarily, you're still basing your lack of faith on facts. You're taking out the easy way, by saying we're an accident.
We are animals, we have cognitive thought. But saying we are on this planet without purpose seems quite futile.

Then why do we have this genetic code telling us we need to survive? We're on a planet which will expire at one time. We gather information just for the fact of curiosity? And then we die anyway? And the planet dies with us, only a lot later? So a given chance is that our offspring will die too on this planet?

I'd say we'd have been better off just staying primitive beings then.

Nice thinking outside the box in the box

You're saying there could be a "God", but it won't be the way we imagine it?

But most of all... very... Avatar, Matrix, etc.