26 (edited by Jack Oniell 07-Jan-2010 00:18:03)

Re: Evolution is a fact!

@Ehawk

1.  Give me one example where its been recorded that one type of animal has changed into another type of animal.

2. the starting point for evolution begins w/ , nothingness exploding into everything that now is through billions of years.  and that is just supposition, theory or belief (what ever u want to call it, its all the same).  It has never been seen by anyone so it CANNOT BE A FACT

3.  and as far as fossils go, each animal has pretty much the same types of bones as humans (not animals). e.g. hip bones , shoulder bones, etc.   they all do the same function which is why they all look half-way alike, not because were all related.

so... nothing in evolution is a fact, evolution is not science it is a belief because none of it can be proven, and adaption is not evolution.


If u use your head instead of believing what your told u would know this.  All it takes is a little bit of common sense.

Re: Evolution is a fact!

they definitely don't teach what they don't know

'Um we got here, when, stuff changed, somehow, in a pond. And it became a monkey, and then your mom was born. Oh there's the bell, now we talk about wearing plastic when you screw each other."

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Evolution is a fact!

> Ehawk wrote:

> @ zarf,
response to #1:
it is my understanding that just as the birds may have had to slowly develop intermediate traits, they had land speed to help their genetics survive long enough through those phase. 


But that land speed is not unique to birds.  A creature could just as easily develop the trait of land speed, yet avoid those whole useless flapping appendages.  In that case, the resulting trait would surely be that the flapping idiot would die while the fast, non-flying creature would survive due to that weakness of useless flapping.


>also a bird-like creature with useless flaps may not survive now, but remember when this happend the predators had equally useless traits. 


No, it occurred while SOME of the creatures were undergoing those transitions.  If that was the case, then every fossil we see would include a bunch of dinosaurs with third eyes, semi-growing wings, and appendages we couldn't even identify today.  The fact that there is even one fossil in the universe, even assuming every other argument you have written, proves this false.


> response to #2:
the skeletal system has evolved and gotten stronger over time. it is my belief that during this"intermediate phase", the skeletal system was either too weak to retain enough calcium deposits for fossilization, or the bones could have been gobbled up by scavengers and dismembered, which can also ruin a fossil.  keep in mind small animals, to this day, do not have the bone mass to generate fossils to stand the test of time.  what makes you think an animal the size of a small rodent would have fossil remains 200k years after its death?


1: Your scavenger argument is a huge leap of faith.  It assumes that 100% of a particular species is eaten by scavengers.  It assumes millions of creatures of multiple species die in the exact same way throughout an entire planet and through over a billion years of history.  In contrast, there are dozens of different ways creatures can die prematurely in ways that both prevent scavengers and preserve the skeletal system, including methods that fossilize eggs.  The odds of this are infinitely small.

2: The "intermediate phase" isn't one step in the evolutionary cycle, like the pre-cambrian era or something.  Evolution is an ongoing process.  As such, it would require these intermediary species to perpetually exist, and to derive from species that did have those strong skeletal structures, such as trilobites, Triassic-era dinosaurs, etc.

3: Many evolutionary processes, such as flight, require strong bone structures as a prerequisite.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Evolution is a fact!

i think birds started off quite small, tiny wings wouldn't of granted flight, but could of increased the length and height the animal could jump which could of been advantageous...  birds are typically associated with living high in trees, to be safe from predators... not only would the tiny wings allow for great mobility in tree branches, it could also decrease the speed an animal fell if they fell out of a tree, increasing their chances of survival...

Re: Evolution is a fact!

alot to reply to... lol. be patient, as i'm in college and then work.  i must try to find time. but i must also confess, though i agree with most things that are said so far, i must still try to argue, for you guys are helping me with a term paper and these responses will absolutely help me.  as i want to write a paper trying to proove evolution as a valid science, if i write this paper purely on belief as jack put it, would be a death sentence on my GPA.  your arguements to my theories will help my paper with merit instead of speculation.  i'll be back in a bit though, today is a busy day. smile

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

Re: Evolution is a fact!

@ jack

it has never been seen, yes.  but there is evidence of results of evolution.  ever wonder why there are no elephant fossils in austrailia?  this is because elephants evolved AFTER pangea drifted apart.  how would you explain species that exist in different locations and no where else?
____________
@ zarf

i'm making this claim assuming that, though useless appendages can slow down a species survival rate, thats what makes evolution so special.  would it be correct to say:

"a species with a low survival rate, may have a high birth rate? which would allow the species overall survival rate to be compensated..."

it is also my belief that there is more to the evolution puzzle that just life and death based on adaptive mutations over time.  I think that the "will to live" and "proliferation" are justification that life evolves as a result of competetive survival.  and many species have different weaknesses and strenths, the cycle of life.

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

Re: Evolution is a fact!

can someone tear this apart?
__________
"How we lost our fur"

i believe human evolution was based on sexual preferenses mosty.  but is we are related to distant ape-like ansestors, where is our fur?  humans simply could not have survived long enough for our brains to develop without fur...

it is my belief, that as man began to walk upright, exposing genetailia, the choices of mate began to be based on arousal instead of simple survival like most animal at that time.  as time passed, so did genetics.  Remember, this occured long before humans had settled their first city, long before we left africa aswell.

as certain genetic strains were naked and more sexually arousing,  the strains with more furs, i believe were outkasted and they eventually evolved into modern chimps.

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

Re: Evolution is a fact!

> Ehawk wrote:

> i'm making this claim assuming that, though useless appendages can slow down a species survival rate, thats what makes evolution so special.  would it be correct to say:

"a species with a low survival rate, may have a high birth rate? which would allow the species overall survival rate to be compensated..."

it is also my belief that there is more to the evolution puzzle that just life and death based on adaptive mutations over time.  I think that the "will to live" and "proliferation" are justification that life evolves as a result of competetive survival.  and many species have different weaknesses and strenths, the cycle of life.




1: There's no empirical or biological reason why some useless flapping appendage would be able to increase birth rates of a species as a whole.  If the only trait being tested between two subjects, A and B, is that A has a useless appendage which has nothing to do with the reproductive system, then your argument has very little footing to stand on.

2: If a trait does increase a species' vulnerability, then many of the species, including the first creatures of the species that were essential to the dawn of the species, would be extremely vulnerable to being killed before sexual maturity.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Evolution is a fact!

> Ehawk wrote:

> it is my belief, that as man began to walk upright, exposing genetailia, the choices of mate began to be based on arousal instead of simple survival like most animal at that time.  as time passed, so did genetics.  Remember, this occured long before humans had settled their first city, long before we left africa aswell.



Except that thousands of species on the planet choose mates partially based on arousal, with or without fur.  Every species that has a practice for choosing order of mates will prove this wrong, as it means species don't need to see genitalia in order to be interested.


There's a much better and simpler version of the evolution-based explanation: Humans first arrived on the planet in Africa.  That place is hot as hell.  Fur keeps the body warm, which is terrible in Africa.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Evolution is a fact!

@ zarf,
i wrote:
"a species with a low survival rate, may have a high birth rate? which would allow the species overall survival rate to be compensated..."

sorry for not clarifing, this statement was not to be connected to the useless flap thing, i was just asking if its possable that weaker animals(like insects) main strategy for survival is proliferation and stronger animals' main survival tactic is specialization. 

also, zarf wrote:
"Except that thousands of species on the planet choose mates partially based on arousal, with or without fur.  Every species that has a practice for choosing order of mates will prove this wrong, as it means species don't need to see genitalia in order to be interested."

as i stated in my post, "at that time".  i know there are animals that choose mates for various reasons, i was trying to assertain the piont where humans may have branched off from apes and became homo-sapiens.

the reason for this, of coarse, is because i'm trying to find a foothold on where humans fit in the tree and i have to provide good theories.  so your saying sexual arousal may not have played a role in the separation between apes and man?  damn, i was hoping i could use that, it would had been funny if i could have wrote "humans separated from apes because we were tired of being dirty stinky and ugly"

as you can see i am struggling.
_____________
next idea:
domestication and human fingerprint in evolution.... coming soon!!! big_smile

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

Re: Evolution is a fact!

> Ehawk wrote:

> @ jack

it has never been seen, yes.  but there is evidence of results of evolution.  ever wonder why there are no elephant fossils in austrailia?  this is because elephants evolved AFTER pangea drifted apart.  how would you explain species that exist in different locations and no where else?
===============

because the earth was always like it is and elephants were never transported over to austrailia long enough ago to be able to create fossils


because those species were never anywhere else
========

come up w/ something worthwhile to support evolution, haven't seen anything yet but crazy ideas.  havn't seen any facts yet;  Highly doubt i will either.

Re: Evolution is a fact!

"But the person who beleives in god probably sleeps better at night, so good for them."

big_smile big_smile big_smile

sounds like opiate for the masses to me!

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

Re: Evolution is a fact!

Ehawk.. and what religions are if not opiate for the masses smile

Strange he's not.

Re: Evolution is a fact!

I may get deeper into this conversation tomorrow, but if your not evolving your dying

~ Cloud

"I Cannot Awake From This Nightmare As Long As You Exist..."

Re: Evolution is a fact!

In science a fact is an observation or piece of evidence, like a fossil. A theory is an explanation of the collected facts.

Re: Evolution is a fact!

a theory is a believed explanation of collected facts.

Re: Evolution is a fact!

read Kuhn

a theory is also the basis for narrowing the observation of facts

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

43 (edited by ~Pw 32~ Random Hero 10-Feb-2010 06:27:29)

Re: Evolution is a fact!

Ok this post will prove that evolution is a fact, im sorry i didn't read everyones post, what the general idea of thinking evolution is not a fact is nonsense.

MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus)

I'm going to bring you on a microscopic level of evolution, as that's where it all really begins.

Staphylococcus aureus or in common terms Staph, that grows on your skin. It's a major cause of alot of serious infections including osteomyelitis. We came up with something that would kill it called it Penicillin ...

Penicillin itself has many sub classes, Methicillin being one. Now to say evolution doesn't happen this bacteria would never exist. For bacteria share something called the F- gene, when exposed to something can kill them, and one survives the F- gene remembers it and thus the cell transforms (evolution).

The bacteria goes further in this process by something called the sex pili, a bridge between 2 bacteria cells. They transfer their F- gene to the other cell that doesn't have the resistance, and in such MRSA was born. In the same fashion the super virus TB was formed, in which if the virus ever takes it's full effect we have NOTHING to beat it.

~ Cloud

"I Cannot Awake From This Nightmare As Long As You Exist..."

Re: Evolution is a fact!

Oh and this doesn't have nothing to do with the topic, but Penicillin was found and made in my hometown Pittsburgh, PA big_smile

~ Cloud

"I Cannot Awake From This Nightmare As Long As You Exist..."

Re: Evolution is a fact!

Well it's a fact.  We have a certain feline species in Oregon that is unique in all the world, with an addtional digit on their front paws.  This in time would turn to ambidexterious usage which would allow them to pick up items.  Such as cuttlery and utensils.  I should know, i caught our cat picking up a fork one day with both it's paws.  I was quite shocked.

How long before their on horseback hunting us down, screaming, "Get your damn dirty paws off me you stinking two legged mammal!"

Seriously the species does exist, and it only allowed inside a certain property limit.  Any of the felines caught outside the restricted area is to be "destroyed", or spayed.  Their not allowed as a house pet.  I wonder why?

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

46 (edited by Rain 04-Mar-2010 02:05:33)

Re: Evolution is a fact!

God created the world in 7 days you heathen! The world has only been around for 6000 years!

DINOSAURS ARE A CONSPIRACY!

PRAISE JESUS!!!! WAR ON ISLAM!

[22:11]    <Primo>    WHO SAID I AM ACTIVE? X( X(

Is that a NAP I saw you make? Time to break it!

Re: Evolution is a fact!

God put fossils in the earth to deceive us.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Evolution is a fact!

Yes, and crude oil is actually the blood of satan.

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

Re: Evolution is a fact!

..and we're burning the blood of satan. God Bless.

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ &#9773; Fokker