26 (edited by ~Pw 32~ Random Hero 02-Jan-2010 02:33:43)

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

"The most potent argument against the use of marijuana to treat medical disorders is that marijuana may cause the acceleration or aggravation of the very disorders it is being used to treat."

go back to google, or whatever poor references you have and try to actually find some facts. I'm a health care professional and everything you've just posted is complete bs

~ Cloud

"I Cannot Awake From This Nightmare As Long As You Exist..."

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

i think it is possable for various random effect to occur.  but no one can use this as an argument against legalization because many other product can do it too.

here are some examples of symptoms i have encountered and/or learn about in college:

1. allergies
2. irritation of skin
3. restlessness and/or anxiety
4.  emotional isolation

i'm sure there are more, but remember these symptoms are so rare and uncommon, they are considered neglegable.  fact is, most humans can use marijuana with absolutely no "un-intended" side effect.  and simply if anyonne is actuallty have negative side effect from ANY product, they are always advise to stop usage.  if the conservative right is going to argue against weed legalization using this arguement, then they might as well recall nearly half the prescription drugs already on the shelves! things like oxykonton and hydrocodone have far worst side effects than marijuana.

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

28 (edited by Justinian I 02-Jan-2010 21:18:37)

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

Marijuana is not illegal for health related reasons. It's illegal for political and economic reasons. Prisons have become a profitable center for slave labor, with prisoners working for companies at the prisons for below $1.00. To man these slave pits, the authorities have had to expand the crimes that count as felony punishment and implement conditions after release to effectively bring offenders back. These conditions include strict probation and limited work and education opportunities. For example, a person can not qualify for student aid if they have been in prison for a drug offense.

Personally, I have nothing against this policy. The de facto double standard effectively controls the number of hip hop idiots on the streets.

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

(i don't have real facts to prove this paragraph, this is based on my personal experience) The thing with canabis is that it becomes part of someones personality. People who smoke weed wouldn't be themselves if they weren't on drugs(or they aren't themselves because of the drugs). once you're used to being the person on drugs, i think it's pretty hard/frightening to change from the person on drugs to the person on no drugs. becoming the person on drugs ussually happens without you really noticing it.... This goes for any drug i guess, including alcohol. So why allow alcohol , and not weed?

(this paragraph is from my psychologie book. This MIGHT be a reason/arguement why they don't want to legalize weed) Canabis is a reality altering drugs, it mimics/alters the signal sent by a neurotransmitters inside your brain. It basically changes the way you percieve things around you.
Alcohol is different, it blocks the signal that the neurotransmitter is trying to send. alcohol is not a  reality-altering drug. The more you drink, the less your mind&body is able to do(or proces) because it stops recieving signals.

You might loose track everything around you if you use too much alcohol, but that goes for any drug. Using too much of something is always bad, that even goes for vitamines.


Personally i am not against legalizing. It beats alcohol on some points, alcohol beats weed on others. In my opninion they're pretty balanced, so if you allow one, why no the other(if they are more or less the same when it comes to "damage" in the wide meaning of the word)?

Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

> SOL wrote:

>

Personally i am not against legalizing. It beats alcohol on some points, alcohol beats weed on others. In my opninion they're pretty balanced, so if you allow one, why no the other(if they are more or less the same when it comes to "damage" in the wide meaning of the word)?


because alcohol while legal is harmful. its one thing keeping a drug legal and its another legalizing another harmful drug...

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

good point, that's one of the better arguements i ever heard against legalizing(i don't really follow the debate). I still wouldn't mind if they legalized it( And no, i don't  smoke weed).

Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato

32 (edited by avogadro 02-Jan-2010 23:14:20)

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

im not die hard against legalising of pot, but i have yet to find a valid reason why it should be legalized. we dont need another abusive substance legalized..  alcohol or tobacco may be worse and are still legal, but them being worse and being legal isnt a reason in itself to legalize weed..

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

evolution!

after about 5,000 years, tom walks up to frankie and say's "i'm sure glad that country back in the early 2000 days legalized pot and let them suffer.
frankie :"yep, polution should had killed us all, but our lung grew stronger over the years, because our ancestors were so kind to get all f**k*d and make us stronger!" "yey! go USA!!!
tim: who?

---------
big_smile

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

Im gonna get into this subject tomorrow. Brace yourselves meanwhile.

.::: ______This is my world now_____ :::.
.:::_____D____A____M____O____N_____:::.
~Fight for your freedom or die enslaved~
~Lemming, Fft, Blue Wing, Viking, Nomad~

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

Man I love my country (Holland)

''Everything is easy, Unless you make it difficult''
The Legend always returns

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

<----- still looking forward to Damon's rant on this topic, big_smile

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

"im not die hard against legalising of pot, but i have yet to find a valid reason why it should be legalized. we dont need another abusive substance legalized..  alcohol or tobacco may be worse and are still legal, but them being worse and being legal isnt a reason in itself to legalize weed.."

So why not make some others illegal in the prescription world then i'll listen to someone wasting our time using the 'abusive' defense.

Its no fun until someone dies.
Cos I need to watch things die.

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

marijuana is not abusive, yes it does become part of someone's personality, but wait....

a personality is the essense of someones character thats resulted from experiences.  this means everything can effect your personality.  now lets compare the personality "defects" from pot users to the personality of a compulsive gambler, or alcoholics?

these people are addict no matter what.  society is in control of their conduit for there personalities.  would it be logical to say that if legalizing pot would keep gamblers away from the casinos, or a hoser away from the bar, wouldn't that be a positive thing? 

"i drink alot less beer when i'm smokin tree"

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

"i drink alot less beer when i'm smokin tree"

Amen. For me, its one or the other. Except for the one before going to sleep.



To the average non-smoking Joe, (like many here) a law reform would go unnoticed, and the effects on such individuals would be minimal at best. To the smoker, a law reform would create a much more enjoyable high for many through the minimisation of induced paranoia. To the patient, a law reform would provide another avenue of medication.
Hypothetically, if they legalized drink driving, I still wouldn't do it cos I know too many people and too many affected families who have suffered from such an action, maybe if I hadn't i'd think otherwise. Yes, I have been on both sides of the reaction.
If I found a concrete reason to to not smoke I wouldn't. Thus far I have no reason why I shouldn't.


Here's an account of the il-legalization of marijuana and other drugs. For those not bothered in reading it all, i'll copy/paste the best bit. The answerer is Douglas Valentine.
http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2602.html

"CC: What are some interesting facets of what you have discovered about the anti-narcotics agencies?

I've studied Harry Anslinger, the first drug czar, the guy who first demonized marijuana, and kept FBN alive from 1930 until he retired in 1962.

You have to understand that what the mainstream media tells you about the purpose of government agencies is usually a cover story. For example, we're supposed to believe that Anslinger and the FBN were dedicated to wiping drugs off the face of the earth for moral reasons and to protect Americans, right? Truth is, Anslinger was a private policeman for establishment interests who benefitted from making some drugs illegal.

When the Harrison Act in 1914 made heroin, morphine, opium, and other plant-derived medications illegal, it was primarily because America was becoming corporatized; the monied interests ? doctors, pharmaceutical manufacturers, pharmacists ? were becoming organized lobbies that manipulated public policy to achieve private gain.

Before 1914, poor people who couldn't afford doctors got relief through legal opiates and cannabis medicines. The businesspeople realized these plant drugs were a big threat to their profits. They wanted commercial control of opium and its derivatives so you had to pay them to get these drugs.

Another agenda was to make sure FBN only busted drugs and drug traffickers who weren't part of the corporate profit chain or serving other government interests.

For example, FBN had plenty of evidence that some Asian smugglers were the biggest drug smugglers in the world at the time, supplying dangerous drugs to the Mafia. But Anslinger had to prevent that information from coming out, because these particular smugglers were fighting the communists and the Japanese. If you were a poor Mexican or a black jazz musician smoking weed in Harlem, on the other hand, it was all out war against you.

That's why the US government has protected drug smugglers in Central America, Asia, and Afghanistan's Northern Alliance smugglers ? these people are America's proxy warriors; smuggling money finances wars that are "in the US interest.""

Its no fun until someone dies.
Cos I need to watch things die.

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

I don't need a babysitter. If you do, maybe you should consider not voting or trying to influence other people's lives in any way.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

41 (edited by Key 26-Feb-2010 23:50:43)

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

The genetic manipulation of marijuana has increased, so that the effects are more long lasting.  Problem is, most users of marijuana either illegally, or legally through the medical use excuse are nothing more than addicts.

Yes, I said addicts.  They are much like tobaco users, with the same effects when going cold turkey.

Several violent incidents I can report from personal experience from those who had not have had a hit in 3 days.  Irrational behavior, paranoia, pacing, insomnia, extreme irritability.  The person I once worked with in a restaurant, threw a cast steel frying pan at my head, nearly missing it by less than an inch on video camera.  And he was a constant user, whose supply during the winter days usually dried up.  He entered rehab years ago, and stopped using it.  And he will contest that yes, he had NO CONTROL over his drug use, and marijuana is the drug he stated he used.

Another incident was when i was less than 5 or 6 years old.  With a group of adults including my babysitter we went to the beach. The adults went off and told the two children to stay near a cliff line.  Of course we're children of a young age and curious about exploring.  We saw them down over the side of a dune and decided to go to them.  Turns out it wasn't a dune, but a 30 foot slope, dropping off into the sea.  When we realized our error we attempted to climb back up.  Unfortunately the sand was pouring back towards the cliff side and taking us with it.  We screamed and eventually the adults realized that we were in trouble.  They came running back up, and were able to get us off the cliff edge before we dropped off.

They reaked of the one smell that I could remember from the incident of marijuana.  I almost died, because you assholes say it doesn't affect you or anyone else around you.

I'm living proof and witness that you jerk offs are wrong.  All you smokers and tokers can burn in hell, and I seriously hope you kill yourselves before you kill someone else from your lethargic stupidity to get "High".

Whatever, screw you people.  Just die.  Just go die.

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

42 (edited by Chris_Balsz 27-Feb-2010 00:10:50)

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

I thought Rockefeller Republicans were awful, these new Tea Party Libertarians are total dumbasses who will kill us all.

There's a debate at a formerly right-wing website where they argue against having the tyrannical Big Govt limiting our freedom wtih the FDA.  And upset with Abe Lincoln for establishing monolithic federal government.  And ordering us to believe that the values of the Founders, Reagan and William F Buckley are best represented by permitting abortion, gay rights and total legalization of drugs --which all those guys somehow opposed.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

43

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

Marijuana makes unproductive potatoes. Smoke it all you want, just don't put any in my burger. Oh and yes I would like some fries.

Rehabilitated IC developer

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

"Yes, I said addicts.  They are much like tobaco users, with the same effects when going cold turkey."

Yes and no.  Marijuana contains no addictive substances, that is to say there is nothing in Marijuana that creates a chemical dependency.  The same is true for untreated tobbaco (that is just smoking tobbaco leaves), it is the addition of nicotine that creates a chemical dependence.  So while someone stopping Marijuana use may suffer similar symptoms to someone stopping cigarette use the pot smoker can be set straight by a few blows to the head and a demand to shape up (actuall worked once that I know of).

Personally I support the legalization of Marijuana for 3 reasons.  First because Marijuana is no more hazardous to your health than tobbaco or alcohol so there's no grounds for illegalization on that basis.  Note some dealers do lace pot with other substances which are hazardous to your health (more on that later).  Second the legalization of Marijuana allows for the taxation of Marijuana (similar to alcohol and Tobbaco) which would allow for a reduction in personal and corporate taxes or in lieu of said reduction more revenue for the government to be spent on Defense, Infrastructure, Health Care, Paying off debt, etc.  Finally all the social problems associated with Marijuana are the result of it being an illegal substance.  Pot is relatively cheap and very few people who sell it sell it exclusively.  Like any business these dealers don't want to turn away customers just because they don't have what they want specifically in their inventory so they offer hard drugs (the really bad ones).  Those who take this offer (simply wanting to get a fix) become addicted to these much more expensive drugs.  Also some dealers lace pot with other drugs/substances which make the drugs more addictive and increase health risks.  Since most people can't afford being addicted to hard drugs those who can't deal with cutting back/recreational use turn to crime as a means of income.  All of these problems; the gateway effect, associated crime, health problems; are greatly reduced if not eliminated entirely by the legalization of pot.

As for the psychological effects of Marijuana use yes there are some but again no more than tobbaco or alcohol.  I know people, normally quite pleasant, who become excessively violent if denied a cigarette for more than a few hours.  I have never ran into anyone who went into a rage over Marijuana or become uncontrollably violent while using it.  People respond to toxins (which is all alcohol, tobbaco, etc are) in different ways some can't handle it, sucks to be them.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

Thank you for your ridiculous input, Key.

Your first reference is to someone who obviously abused other drugs than marijuana and/or suffered from serious psychological disorders. Good choice. Maybe next you could blame marijuana for the effects of heroin and the lies of its users? That's as valid an argument as you have presented; ie, not at all valid.

You almost died because your parents were idiots who left their children alone. We'll ignore the fact that you disobeyed your parents because this, too, was obviously their fault. Pot didn't make you or your parents stupid. Sorry. If you had almost died left alone for 5 minutes while your parents went to buy diapers, would you argue that diapers affected you and almost resulted in your death?

Shitty people exist in the world. They do rotten things and act like the idiots/trash that they are. Being idiots/trash, they are at least as likely or more than others to drink/smoke/smoke. But the fact that shitty people drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes and smoke pot doesn't make alcohol, nicotine, or marijuana the cause of the shitty people's behavior. Lots of people who smoke pot are trash. Shocking fact. Lots of people are trash. Of course lots of people who smoke pot are trash. And it's no coicidence that the few people you might be exposed to who you are aware smoke marijuana are shitty people, worsening your experience with pot smokers. That's because shitty people are the kind of people who are dumb and unprofessional enough that you'll find/figure out one way or another that they smoke pot. You can bet your life that you know a number more people who smoke marijuana, however often. You just don't know it.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

It's a substance, and it can be abused by anyone.  Not just people YOU believe to have psychological disorders.  That damn crap causes idiocy on a daily bases.  Constant users do suffer long term memory loss.  You can act like an irrational dip who thinks he knows everything there is to know about drugs.

Wasn't parents.  It was adults.  A GROUP of adults of aproximately 8-10 individuals.  And that was back in the mid to late 1970's.  So a WHOLE group were getting high.

So individuals know what their doing, but groups don't?  Wow, and you assumed it was my parents that were getting high?  All you messed up mothers, going around telling people IT WON'T HURT YOU, your a bunch of liars.

As for you never ran into someone that never became excessivly violant routine, did you ever have a few friends that were missing a little bit of money out of their wallet?  I'll bet if you ask, they'll say yes, and i wonder where that money went to.  Probably to the other friends of yours that stole it.

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

I don't spend time with trash. You seem to have missed the point. It's nobody's fault but yours if you do.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

48 (edited by Key 03-Mar-2010 19:29:35)

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

It's the drug growers fault.  It's the drug sellers fault.  It's the parents fault.  The fault can be equally shared by numerous individuals, not just the user.  After all if your parents didn't teach you to say no, if the grower decided not to grow food produce, if the drug seller decided not to sell cars, then really, you got no one else but to blame but the blind asses that didn't wake up to see the mess they created.

Namely people like you.

Seriously, it's a lot more fault of every other person in the SUPPLY chain, and the so called, "FRIENDS", who helped create this screwed up drug situation.

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

I'm confused. I have no problem. You do. And it has nothing to do with me. Yet you believe that "people like [me]" are the problem? Thank you for your 0 basis statement and overgeneralization. You may want to see a psychologist. Reefer didn't make your parents and their friends all leave you alone as a child. Sorry. And you're not my responsibility. That you misplace blame on marijuana for the childish, trashy behavior of individuals you associate with doesn't equate to causality. Maybe youz trash.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Marijuana Legalization?

I love the passive aggression of the new Libertarians, they have learnt well from us Rightwing freaks

Pro: Marijuana is a harmless pleasure with many benefits.
Anti: It is a toxic poison that perverts kitten lovers into berserker kamikazes.
Pro: Some people just aren't worthy to survive.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.