26 Reply by Justinian I (edited by Justinian I 27-Dec-2009 20:10:25)

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Re: USA Doomed?

> Ehawk wrote:

> i have no arguement with that, justinian hit the nail on the head. our elites are absolutely driven by short term gain. 

@justinian, how do you think a dictatorship would actually start? military coup d'etat? or simply a fall of economics that result in localized governments?>

The historical record suggests when the elites fail to supply the goods and services expected of them (whether it's economic, administrative or even security), new suppliers emerge on to the scene. For example, toward the end of the Roman Republic, the nobility caused the number of urban poor to explode. All Marius or Caesar needed to do to gain popular support was to institute themselves as the people's champion. In the case of the French Revolution, the ancient regime neglected and exploited the people to the point that they caused the circumstances that lead to their own demise. The subsequent regimes also failed until Napoleon was able to deliver long lasting security and effective government. In modern times, communities where the government has little presence have also gone to alternative suppliers, like mercenaries for security.

What I see today is that the American elite are neglecting the welfare of the American people for their own short-term gain, and if history serves as a reliable reference the people will eventually go to an alternative supplier. I do not know who, what or how, but I have my doubts that it will be done democratically or that there will be no supplier with the presence over a large land mass. For the former, the elite have a firm grip on the democratic process and can legally ruin any one who opposes their interests. However, my estimation is that there will be some sort of armed overthrow. Second, no office has sufficient power to make the necessary reforms. Third, even if a populist gained a high office, it is doubtful that the elite would be unable to stop an effective populist coalition in either legislative house. For the latter, it is very possible that America could be split between two or more countries with a powerful government presence, but technology and infrastructure makes it impossible to have several small autonomous communities like the Greek polis.

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Re: USA Doomed?

"Are you even an American? What welfare problems do the majority of Americans have? Oh noes we have some unemployment like every other country, oh noes we have some poor people like every other country. Your speculations are bs, thats why youre on IC debating them and not getting paid the big money debating them in a position that actually matters."

the elites are profiting from our misery

1. Drugs are on the rise in the new generations of teenagers, these drug are not your typical drugs that we are used to. these drugs are prescription meds.  so ultimately the elites of the pharmacy groups are in turn, making money from users...
2. every state with the exception of two is in deficit(according to CNN, which is neither right or left wing)
3. unemployment is a serious problem, just because its common in the world does not discredit unemployment as a problem, its horrable no matter where you go.
4. we approaching a surge of troop returns that require medications for post-traumatic stress disorder.  this causes more money to be sent to the elites that profit off such medications, then they retain more power to influence more policy to better their investments
5. our nation is no longer an industrial nation, this causes stress on our entire economy more than europe.

there are plenty more reasons. BTW bill gates is rich but he is not an elite... the elites are the rich that use their money to buy power in the government.

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

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Re: USA Doomed?

america is doomed i realized today. loosen up you assholes


i got caught with a .4 of marijuana at the border today, actaully by accident had no intentions of bringing it. I got a fine from the cops and now not allowed back in the states, im a 22 year old university student. Told them i was goign to NY with my grandma and that i run our universities snow club which crosses the border every week, his reply was i should smoke pot. Everyone in the office was laughing thinking it was funny having a good time, ya reall funny.

the person told me i need to straighten out my life and that he doens't want potheads in his country. Told my buddy he needs to change his lifes path and choose his friends more wisely. I wish i could of told him to lie down so i could shit on his nose.

He asked me what would happen if i was in Canada, i said they'd take it and tell me to go home. WELL YOUR NOT IN CANADA

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Re: USA Doomed?

you're telling us to loosen up, but it sounds like the guys in the office were laughing and having a good time, sounds pretty loose too me... you're they up tight one ranting against the US... you loosen up...

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they're laughing because they bent me over you dumb shit

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*ignores the idiots*

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Re: USA Doomed?

guess you gotta drive ten miles to a different border crossing

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: USA Doomed?

umm well the only borders i can drive to are the states... and I said i am not allowed IN THE STATES, not ACROSS THAT BORDER

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Re: USA Doomed?

Yeah...Americans are pretty backwards :S. Sure, lets take away the pacifying drug...and lets give
everyone semi-automatic weapons instead!

It'll be a hoot...


tongue

I am sKoE
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get and beat you with to show you who's in command.

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Re: USA Doomed?

@flipmode, which border crossing was it? the guys at the rainbow bridge in Niagara Falls are real asshole, but the peace bridge in buffalo is pretty decent, i've never been to any other border crossings though...

@morbo, that just might solve our poulation problems tongue

_______
now, back to the topic of america's problem...

One thing i cant understand is that the propaganda that says "socialism is bad" and "liberals are the death of democracy" resinates in the mind of people who actually benefit more from socialism.  example: i go to a standard blue collar "dive bar" in buffalo NY. there are at least 50% of the patrons who recieve medicaid and medicare, or unemployment and actually are against liberals and demacrats!  the same people who need the help from the government feed into the propaganda and ultimately vote against the people that will help them!

the problem is also within the community.  Ignorant people that dont know shit about politics(and only pay atttention to politics when sports aren't on) offen choose the side of the "norm".  this causes unessesary support for policy that is not actually in favor of the polulation.

in fact, government exists to service and protect the rights of the main group of population.  if the largest group of people is not represented by the government, an uprising will occur.  in the current structure of government, the lobbyists and interests groups influence washington toward policy that is in the best interest of their groups only.  this is unacceptable, because corperate america is not interested in policy that will help poor people because poor people cannot afford most of the commercial demand that the freemarket needs... 
______________
question:  does anyone think that instead of the 800billion bailout that went to the banks and insurance companies, would it have been better to give 200k to 4 million people who earn less than 50k/year?

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

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Re: USA Doomed?

flipmode

I guess its like the premiere of Kung Fu, where the monks dismiss all the kids who play at the gate, and then dismiss the kids who drink tea before the old man...if you can't sneak in then you are not yet ready grasshopper

skoe

who said marijuana pacifies? don't you chew the zulu battle red?

ehawk

they shoulda take a cue from FEMA.  FEMA does not show up and help stop your home from collapsing during the hurricane.  FEMA shows up after the storm and rebuilds.  Yeah scattering the money woulda been better.  Letting CItibank fail and AIG fail and then helping the survivors exist would have been better.  they still have toxic assets adn now the federal government has promised to sail sinking ships

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: USA Doomed?

I didn't know i had it on me, i would have ate it.

and it was at the minnesota border, i go to school in St. Kitts though and niagara ppl always let us take booze across without paying duty.

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Re: USA Doomed?

fly to tijuana and run across the freeway, fly back up from san diego

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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39 Reply by avogadro (edited by Skyroshroud 06-Mar-2010 15:26:14)

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Re: USA Doomed?

> flipmode wrote:

> they're laughing because they bent me over you dumb shit


i understand that, my point is if they're laughing and having a good time while doing their job, they sound pretty loose, even if they [moo] you over for smuggling illegal drugs across the border...

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40 Reply by LG

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Re: USA Doomed?

pleasure in other peoples pain is a good thing now?

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Re: USA Doomed?

sure

there was an online quiz to see if you could emigrate to Canada and I failed, I only speak one language, have a BA and don't know anybody in Canada so they're not that cool either.

>>One thing i cant understand is that the propaganda that says "socialism is bad" and "liberals are the death of democracy" resinates in the mind of people who actually benefit more from socialism.  example: i go to a standard blue collar "dive bar" in buffalo NY. there are at least 50% of the patrons who recieve medicaid and medicare, or unemployment and actually are against liberals and demacrats!  the same people who need the help from the government feed into the propaganda and ultimately vote against the people that will help them!<<
Do you think they will really get back the 10% of wages taken back ove rtheir lifetime? There's no obligation for govt to do that.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: USA Doomed?

http://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PCAAA486.pdf
do the math... and then figure out ARE WE REALLY IN DEBT??????

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Re: USA Doomed?

@cougar, i was thinking of that possability myself.

@chris, i loved your analogy of a hurricane and government assistance, good job. also...
"Do you think they will really get back the 10% of wages taken back ove rtheir lifetime?" no. tongue
_______________
one thing i was thinking of last night(drunk at the bar tongue ) is that republicans are stupid and heres why.... Republicans believe in "top-Down" economics. This means they believe that if the government encourages big business, the big businesses will prosper and wealth will "trickle down" to society.  This is the stupidest economical strategy ever.  Granted it does in fact work in developing nations, but the US is already developed.  but never mind that, heres why i've come to this conclusion: Most republicans practically worship Free Market Enterprise, it is the beating soul of the economy, and with good reason, as i too respect and admire the process of free market.  but lets take a look at what free market is(in general). Free Market is the process to which consumers are in ultimate control of the survivability of business.  Simply if a customer doesn't like a good or service, they simply don't spend their money on it and the less prosperous businesses will fail and others will rise. Free market is the "evolution of economics"  Now, if these reduntant republicans had any sense, they would realize that the economy would do much better if the mass population had more money to spend. 

people who are already rich aren't even spending money, they are storing their money and living off the interest rates.  middle class, lower middle class and the poor would help this economy if they had just a little bit of money.  because no matter what they spend it on, that money goes right back to the market...

oh, for the record, the demacrats are not "socialist", as they are portrayed by the elephants.  they believe in "Bottom-up" economy. which is confused with socialism, because they want the larger percentage of the population to be wealthy instead of a handfull of super rich. 200million middle class people would generate far better tax revenue that 100million broke ass welfare recipients! and BTW welfare is meant to get people on their feet, not to sustain multiple generation of single moms! so, a message to all of the fathers out there that dont do shit for there families, "your ruining our country, take care of your fu**ing family!"

"this rant was brought to you in part by, coca-cola, when you wanna bitch, we got your nitch!" also sponsored by "The GOP, where people go, to stop thinking!"

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

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Re: USA Doomed?

was my last post too long? too confusing? or no one can comment because its right?

i just want to know that that rant didn't go to deaf ears... smile

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

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Re: USA Doomed?

my response was lost in the internets X(

a lot of people who own small businesses in the USA may legally reduce their taxes by filing their company income on their personal tax return

so a lot of taxpayers with incomes >$200k are employers who hire something like half the jobs in teh country.

when Democrats tax people more "because they can afford it" they are directly attacking jobs

maybe because I'm in CA but I see the Democrats as waging war on disposable incomes.  It's not "reasonable" for people to earn too much, and it's "reasonable" for government to dictate what you have to pay to live.

Conservatives would allow anybody to keep more of what they earn, whatever tehy can scrape together

I dunno if that's Republican anymore, those guys aren't really conservative.   The last years Bush governed as if he were John Kerry.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: USA Doomed?

maybe that why i identify myself as an independent... the dems aren't angels either.

i do believe that the USA stands for "for the people, by the people" not "for the business, buy the business"

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

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Re: USA Doomed?

the us has oil and many important resources. So unless they collapse very soon they have some very good cards in the future.

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Re: USA Doomed?

"
oh, for the record, the demacrats are not "socialist", as they are portrayed by the elephants.  they believe in "Bottom-up" economy. which is confused with socialism, because they want the larger percentage of the population to be wealthy instead of a handfull of super rich. 200million middle class people would generate far better tax revenue that 100million broke ass welfare recipients!"


how do the democrats try to make the majority wealthy? they dont. the government cant employ everyone; they need to rely on businesses to hire people; what they do is they get their hands on the most money they can possibly justify, then they stuff a ton of it in their pockets, and then they give little small, shot sighted gains to the masses to justify the raise in government spending. Republicans see that the competition between business provides motivation to boost efficiency that no government could match, so they see that companies competing with each other is going to create the most revenue for the largest amount of people with the least amount of wealth...  Republicans dont beleive in achieving equal wealth throughout the population... they beleive in encouraging the creation of wealth, democrats beleive in controlling wealth...

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Re: USA Doomed?

> DPS wrote:

> "is thins an actual possability? or is it just propaganda bourne from the far right?"

Neither.  What you're experiencing is the result of the deep seeded fear many Americans have of anything even slightly related to socialism.  This fear really developed durring the Cold War where the American propoganda machine worked hard to make Communism appear evil.  Unfortunately they also made the terms Socialist and Communist synonymous in the minds of the American public, they're not.  The hysteric nature of the response to this fear can be attributed to the fact that the US is once again under direct attack, and as they say old habits die hard.  Despite their undeniable ability to deal with threats to their sovereignty/safety it happens so rarely, and the people are so confident in the military might of the country they believe it never will, that when an event like 9/11, Pearl Harbour, etc. the American people panic and have a tendency to over react.



the irony being, Democracy is actually a version of Socialism.

Insane Lemming of Drama Queens and Other Hyperbolical People

1431 ftw

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Re: USA Doomed?

avo wrote
"how do the democrats try to make the majority wealthy? they dont. the government cant employ everyone; they need to rely on businesses to hire people; what they do is they get their hands on the most money they can possibly justify, then they stuff a ton of it in their pockets, and then they give little small, shot sighted gains to the masses to justify the raise in government spending. Republicans see that the competition between business provides motivation to boost efficiency that no government could match, so they see that companies competing with each other is going to create the most revenue for the largest amount of people with the least amount of wealth...  Republicans dont beleive in achieving equal wealth throughout the population... they beleive in encouraging the creation of wealth, democrats beleive in controlling wealth..."

1. our idea of wealth has been blurred over the last 60 years, i only make 34k/year, i consider myself wealthy, yet my brother in-law makes 120k/year, and he thinks he is struggling!
2. yes your right, business is the best way to generate wealth, no arguement there...
3. how well can business do with no customers? 200milion people with an average income is far better than 200million people with a low income. business would fair alot more when people can afford to buy things
4. demicrats offen choose to control wealth to make sure people dont get boned by business. *NOTE*

*NOTE* dont forget the efficiency of business can be dangerous too... once a business gains too much momentum and eventually maintains extreme wealth, they tend to begin to make decisions based on the best interest of the company rather that the people. (banks, aig, wachovia etc)

my question to you avo, is
where is the imaginary line that defines the actions of a business to be in the best interest of the people and when the business begin to "not care"???

I dont smoke cigarettes because i like them.  I smoke because it hides the smell of marijuana thats seeping into the hallway atm.

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