personally, i think if there is a possability of God actually existing, he probably doesn't even know we exist.

believing in God gives humans a sort of comfort level.  but i say, why waste time podering the existance of something that can never be proven during life. look at all of the beauty and fun currently on earth!

i dont believe God exists. if i am wrong, do you think i would be punished for living my life with reason? i've killed people and lived hellish in southwest asia, i drink, i smoke and i cheated on my wife! but i'm just living my life, if i'm punished by a deity of any sort, for my behaviors on a planet in which was already troubled before my birth, then he/she/it can kiss my ass.  i'm not selling my soul to niether god or the devil, it is mine and nobody else's. 

it seems redundant to waste my time with faith, when the only thing for certain, is what we have right in front of us.  i'm going out for a beer now, and i will enjoy myself, have fun falling asleep at church and enjoy your crappy wine thats is blessed my a mere mortal, oh, and those crackers suck anyways.

"
- Let's clarify.. What's your idea of heaven? Because I'm a little confused. You think that we die and just go to a wonderful joyous place? It has nothing to do with God?"

i have no idea what heaven is like. the Catholic church/religion does not know what heaven is like. it is generally considered a good "place". a religious person would say everything has to do with God. of coarse heaven has to do with god...

"- You seem to be contradicting your previous statement about heaven here. If we are going to heaven anyways.. wtf bother?"

first of all, why bother with what?  2nd, i never said everyone is going to heaven....

"When was the last time you were in any christian denomination of church? Have you listened to any christian music lately?"

Sunday...

"
- Oh for sure this is true. But I not only find MASSIVE flaws in Catholicism but in Christianity and the idea of any God"

then mention them, because thus far you have only demonstrated a childish understanding of Christianity...

"
- Again... If we don't need to live this plan to go to heaven... then [] it?"

we dont know his plan, so how can we go against it? maybe we are just a pretty background... how you gonna go against that?  and i never said everyone is going to heaven...

"- I take slight offense to this because I am very well versed in Catholicism and Christianity. I'm point out flaws people don't want to listen to."

you dont appear very well versed in it.... you point out flaws anyone preparing to become an adult in the church would ask prior to becoming an adult...

> Simon wrote:

> "he probably doesn't even know we exist. "

Only if you believe in a non-omnipotent/omniscient god.

Pray, Rain, what do you think of Catholicism and the numerous targets of worship? I ask because the ever increasing number of saints reminds me of Paganism.

Catholics dont worship saints...

> Little Paul wrote:

> religion is exactly the result of an increase in IQ in the human species.

When able to think about his situation he has an internal conflict. His instinct tells him to be alive at all cost (and fight his way to success) and his mind tells him there is no reason nor purpose in life whatsoever. So they invented religion. If it wasn't invented, it would. They probably invented it countless times. It is proven that the prehistoric man had forms of religion.

It is ironic that this black anarchist was celebrated as a demi-god because Christianity was enforced by the roman emperor.

1. have u thought that maybe the so called "prehistoric man" had forms of religion because in actuallity the 1st man and women were around just 6000 yrs ago (approx. 4000 B.C.).

2. And to answer the orginal question " Tell us why we don't believe in God", the reason people don't believe in God, the creator of heaven and Earth, and all things there-in, is because people don't want to believe that their is some one or something out there more powerfull than them.   And cause if "God" is real then that would put evidence forth that the Holy Bible is in fact the Holy word of God, therefore putting forth the fact that we as humans can't get to heaven on our own.  Reason being because no one can follow "The Law" given by God through Moses, which was the purpose of the Law.   So therefore there had to be an ultimate sacrifice (Christ) as the perfect atonement for sin.  And which through Christ is the only way to get to heaven.  "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6 (KJV)

So this is why people don't believe in God, is because they don't want to held accountable for their actions according to the Truth, so they create their own forms of gods, i.e. other people (celebrities, superstars, athletes, etc), money, themselves, etc.

"Catholics dont worship saints..."

why do you do with saints?

"Catholic idea of heaven; you dont need to be christian to go to heaven. you dont need to be in constant prayer or have been in constant prayer, you dont need to have worshiped god, you dont need to have followed the 10 commandments, you dont need to be what we consider a good person, ect im not seeing a uniformity in heaven..."

-Again I quote... Maybe I am misinterpreting.. but are you not saying everyone is going go to heaven here?

[EDIT] You may be saying that there is a certain amount to grace given to a person before they die when they receive last rights. Catholics do believe that people get one last shot before death if you are truly, truly repentant. I've also head that you can still go to heaven even after death by repenting in front of God at your judgment but who is anyone to say who/what God will forgive?

BUT chances are that when you are on your death bed and haven't believed in God your whole life your not going to be able to go through a massive life altering (excuse the pun) experience where your heart it truly changed.

Catholics believe that Mercy/Justice go very close hand in hand as well. If your intention is to live a life full of debauchery and sin then turn your head to God while your dying to try to get a free pass... You're taking the quick elevator the the heating room.

It's the same thing as going to confession after your banged your gf knowing your going to do it again but are trying to get it off your back. You have to be contrite

"Maybe I am misinterpreting.. but are you not saying everyone is going go to heaven here?"

i did not say everyone is going to heaven in that quote.

this link seems fairly accurate about the current catholic teaching on the matter: http://www.ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2heavn.htm

"God is the infinitely good and merciful Father. But man, called to respond to him freely, can unfortunately choose to reject his love and forgiveness once and for all, thus separating himself for ever from joyful communion with him. It is precisely this tragic situation that Christian doctrine explains when it speaks of eternal damnation or hell. "

(btw, we are now debating Heaven and Hell instead of God.. we need to wonder back to the subject )

"the language mine uses is less likely to be misinterpretted by simpletons..."

Wtf is all this about? that has NO relevance.

Lets remember.. most of the bible is misinterpreted, so whats the truth anyway?

SO which Christianity is right? Catholic, Anglican, Protestant, Methodist, Brethren, Lutheran, Presbyterian, 7th Day Adventists, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness.. etc.?
They are all different, and worship from teachings from different figures as is obvious. SO which one is closest if any? and why?
Heck every version of the bible is translated differently, thus can be interpreted different, so is the 'truth' being bent and distorted?

Even religious people can't agree. This alone gives me reason enough NOT to believe in God.

Does not Jesus state that we are all equal, so why is one man (the Pope) glorified by the Catholics worldwide? Would God turn away a Homosexual? A rape victim who had an abortion?

.
Is this correct?

"Let's take a look at what the Catholic believer has to do today in order to "receive" salvation.

The Vatican teaches that salvation is through the church.

According to the Catholic church you must do all of the following in order to receive salvation:

    * Confess your sins to a Roman Catholic priest.
    * "Receive" all appropriate Roman Catholic sacraments.
    * Believe that Grace comes only via Rome's sacraments, and only through Mary.
    * Buy or earn as many indulgences as possible so as to avoid Purgatory.
    * Believe that Grace can only be distributed to you by Mary.
    * Attend the Roman Catholic Mass on all Sundays and holy days.
    * Obey all of Rome's rules (i.e., precepts of the Church).
    * Be a member of the Roman Catholic Church.
    * Submit yourself to the Pope.

The bible teaches that you must believe in Jesus and obey the Gospel for salvation, and that it's by the grace of God, not Mary or Rome, that we are saved.  All of the above only make you subservient to the Roman Catholic church and do not ensure your place with God at all."

http://www.prophecyandtruth.com/catholic.htm#catholic

I have just spent the last hour reading through this thread.
The amount of contradiction is funny.
The amount of hypocrisy is not.
Unless original purpose of this thread is addressed I am going to have it closed.

> avogadro wrote:

> > Jack Oniell wrote:

> Then why do catholics pray to Mary?

Saints are generally good people. if you relate to a saint, it would be like a young author who is inspired by an older, successful author. a young author asks for help from the older author just like a christian might as for the help of a saint, who has gone through what they have gone through... its easier to relate to a saint, someone who was once human and struggled like we struggle, then to relate to God; we cant possibly imagine divinity.

Exodus 20:2-6

2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
3 Do not have any other gods before me.

4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Doesn't praying to Mary or any of the other saints go directly against the 1st Commandment?  It does from what i understand.