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Imperial Forum → Politics → Iran to build 10 more nuke facilities
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/29/AR2009112900992.html
Is there enough justification for a preemptive strike on Iran yet? If so, would the West stomach yet another front on the 'War on Terror?'
Please... someone explain to me any peaceful purpose that would justify Iran publicly announcing they would build these?
they want to make green crystal vases
uranium makes it green
How about a pre-emptive strike on USA- the only country that has ever actually used nuclear weapons. and full of lunatics who are itching to use them again.
I think the world would be more likely to support that
it doesn't really matter guys, israeli government will do it with no regard to anyone else if iran gets nukes.
Who is Iran allied with?
> someone explain to me any peaceful purpose
> that would justify Iran publicly announcing they
> would build these
So that the IAEA can't complain. Everything is out in the
open -- Iran has learnt from previous mistakes.
> Is there enough justification for a preemptive strike
> on Iran yet?
"Justification" can always be generated. Its just propoganda.
> israeli government will do it with no regard to anyone else
Yes, you are right -- the Isreali government is a much larger threat
to international security and human rights then Iran is. They should
be targetted first (lets hit these bitches in sequence, starting with Isreal
and ending with Iran 
).
> Who is Iran allied with?
No one important. They have ties with several countries though, like Brazil
and such.
A "pre-emptive strike" is another term for an "unprovoked attack". If someone
were to strike Iran without reason, there would be massive backlash. Just as if
Iran were to strike someone else without reason.
Israel is already standing in shit because of the whole slaughtering Palistinian
children thing. I doubt they'd attack Iran on anything but "they HAVE the bomb"
intelligence.
> israeli government will do it with no regard to anyone else
Yes, you are right -- the Isreali government is a much larger threat
to international security and human rights then Iran is. They should
be targetted first (lets hit these bitches in sequence, starting with Isreal
they will only be doing what over half of the world has wanted to do since the 80's when they took all of those hostages, they could have at least tried to listen to reason. IRAN I MEAN.
>>How about a pre-emptive strike on USA- the only country that has ever actually used nuclear weapons. and full of lunatics who are itching to use them again.
I think the world would be more likely to support that<<
Bring it on. If you're up to it.
"Any time he can rub me out, I deserve rubbing out" -- Dashiell Hammett
Iran has political/military ties with Hezbollah, Hamas, Shiite Insurgents in Iraq, and they're starting to sell gear to the Taliban. They have commerical ties wtih North Korea, Russia, China and Germany.
>>A "pre-emptive strike" is another term for an "unprovoked attack". If someone
were to strike Iran without reason, there would be massive backlash. Just as if
Iran were to strike someone else without reason.
Israel is already standing in shit because of the whole slaughtering Palistinian
children thing. I doubt they'd attack Iran on anything but "they HAVE the bomb"
intelligence.<<
your outrage doesn't mean crap without the US Navy and Air Force backing it up.
> Morbo the Annihilator wrote:
> > someone explain to me any peaceful purpose
> that would justify Iran publicly announcing they
> would build these
So that the IAEA can't complain. Everything is out in the
open -- Iran has learnt from previous mistakes.
Now you have to justify 10 new nuke facilities, then.
if the USMS backs the job, then the commandant will order it, and the marines are full scale infantry capable, land, air, or sea.
they could take the whole country if they wanted.
Send some special ops to blow up the facilities covertly. It's what we should have done in Iraq. We can't afford full scale wars right now.
"We can't afford full scale wars right now."
I think that is what Iran is betting on. Moreover, they're probably right. When will the US ever be able to afford another full-scale war? It's in debt up to its eye-balls, and the only way out is bankruptcy, and THAT would bankrupt China, Japan, and other major holders of US debt. The big question is how would those nations react to such a scenario.
The only way it would work is if the US, China, and other major economic powers all agreed to enter a hyper-inflationary period (which looks as if will happen). We'd probably see the collapse of the monetary system at some point during a full-scale war, though, all world debt canceled, and then the monetary system replaced by some other currency.
But could a pre-emptive strike on Iran result in a full-scale war? Probably not. Iran would probably just get hammered in a swift war; their regime would be changed; hardliners removed from positions of power, and then there would be 20-50 years of ongoing occupation / reconstruction efforts, hopefully more successfully than whats currently happening in Iraq and Afghanistan.
China and South-East Asia, Middle East, Russia, and India, South America, and Africa, if they go along with this universal hyper-inflationary period would jostle to find ways to suffer the less than one another, ultimately placing the majority of the burden on the North American and European economies.
Those countries which would not go along with the hyper-inflationary period, would probably find themselves at war with those nations that would go along with it.
The likelihood of a world war flaring up, therefore, would depend on which countries / regions would adopt the hyper-inflationary fiscal policy agreements and which would not.
In a sense, you could say that those who would refuse pay the US to be the world's police-force and stomp out terrorism and rogue regimes would find themselves enemies of those that would.
> xeno syndicated wrote:
> "We can't afford full scale wars right now."
I think that is what Iran is betting on. Moreover, they're probably right. When will the US ever be able to afford another full-scale war? It's in debt up to its eye-balls, and the only way out is bankruptcy, and THAT would bankrupt China, Japan, and other major holders of US debt. The big question is how would those nations react to such a scenario.
the percent of their gdp that they are in debt is still very reasonable, the US could easily afford a full scale way financially, however it would be political suicide.
Avo,
Would it be political suicide BECAUSE it is in fact economic suicide?
No, the US's ratio of debt to GDP is NOT reasonable.
ooo finally an interesting discussion
Interesting articles on the subject worth reading carefully:
http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-our-de-2009-4
http://www.reuters.com/article/reutersComService4/idUSTRE50I4BU20090119?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0
My two cents:
The best option all around is increased inflationary, yet because inflation is already so high, it would become hyper-inflationary period very, very easily. It would be initiated in order to cope with the US TOTAL debt to GDP crisis and help it fight Islamic-extremism at the same time. However, convincing countries to get on board with this is proving difficult. It won't work unless all the major players start printing money in line with slow GDP growth, so as to lower the Total Debt to GDP ratio of the US economy. This won't be possible, though, without EU, Russia, China, and India on board with it. (India's recent gold purchases are a sign they won't be going along with the plan, a sad development indeed.)
Basically, if the US goes to war with Iran without at least one of the emerging powers: (China, Russia, or India) on board with this methodical planned-inflation scheme and US debt reduction, a war with Iran could escalate.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2186rank.html
61 United States
37.50
2008 est.
looks pretty reasonable to me... imo, info from someone who's job is to accurately find out the percent of gdp nation's debt posses is more reliable then someone who's job is to write entertaining articles... a large government organization is also under alot more scrutiny for accuracy then some magazines most people have never heard of...
it would be political suicide for multiple reasons. 1 because wars not on our soil is going to be unpopular for his base of support no matter the circumstances 2 because we just had 2 unpopular wars, a 3rd would be even less popular. 3 because he has already drastically increased government spending which has been unpopular, increasing government spending even more would make him look even worse. 4 because his anti-war stance is probably the only thing the public favors him over the opposing party. ect.
Avo,
That's 'Public' debt, not 'Total' debt. Total Debt includes all debt held by public and the private sectors collectively, including entitlement debts, medical and social insurance liabilities. Total Debt of the US is calculated to be 680% of GDP.
source and comparison to other countries?
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html
has gdp at 14.4 tril
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html
has total external debt as under 14 tril, so under 100%...
http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/crisis-explained-one-chart-debt-gdp/11570#comment-12461
says total debt (i guess internal and external) is 360% of gdp... and is the most up to date source i've found... far from your 680%...
The figure includes retirement pensions and other entitlements.
"if we add the entitlement "debts" to the Fed's Z.1 definition of debt, then our Debt-To-GDP calculation vaults to a stunning, unpayable ratio of 680%."
http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/whats-total-debt-gdp-ration-us/11673
Who is selling them the centrifuges for their 10 nuke plants?
Nobody,it
> Who is selling them the centrifuges for their 10 nuke plants?
Either Russia, or they will do it in-house.
> Nobody,it
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