Topic: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

Yesterday the current alaskan governor stated in no uncertain terms that the federal government can place the polar bear on the endangered species all the want.  That would still not stop the state from going forward with current resource production of the Alaskan natural resources.  Everything from strip mining, drilling for oil in the tundra basin, and clear cutting, and overfishing (namely into canadian waters).

I admire a guy that can tell his own government to go to hell, but chances are he shot himself in the foot, since in todays "green age" it's political suicide to go about bandering that endangered wild life doesn't deserve to live.  The bald eagle has made a miraculous comeback since it's inception to the endangered species decades ago, and is being seen in certain parts of the country not seen in half a century.

Now i can see the state is in dire straights most of the time with economic job loss, and wanting to find new resources under federally protected lands, but that's not his call now is it.

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

After you live in Alaska for 5 years (or was it 3?) the government pays you $1500 a year to live there. Alaska is so crappy that no one cares what you do to it.

Rehabilitated IC developer

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

Yes, but didn't you read the story, how one town actually was giving away free land to 24 prospectors.  And they couldn't build nothing there, because the ground was frozen solid, and there was a time limit...and it was during an alaskan winter.  Most of the places are inaccessable to live in the first place, and being on an island chain doesn't help.  smile That and due to rising sea levels, some of those island will be underwater not to soon.  So $1500 a year won't help people live unless you count burning $1500 worth of toilet paper for warmth.

So, alaska has to continue to strip mine and drill for more resources that aren't renewable so it can pay $1500 per person per year for people to live there?  I think the polar bears want their homes back.

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

Shoot Al Gore...


...The polar bears can live in his power-guzzling
mansion.

I am sKoE
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get and beat you with to show you who's in command.

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

if the polar bears want their land back, lets see them try to take it back by force!!! tongue

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

lol!


But...pre-emptive nuclear strikes would only result...in...






*** TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA POLAR BEARS! ***

I am sKoE
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get and beat you with to show you who's in command.

7 (edited by Skyroshroud 19-Nov-2009 11:30:19)

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

Then the whole world would be pretty much [moo'd]...

I am sKoE
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get and beat you with to show you who's in command.

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

cant you just see some alaskans sitting down in their log caban at a table, enjoying diner. and then all of a sudden a polar bear breaks down the door, charges in, and eats them all? hilarious!!

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

yikes You people are from the NRA and nuclear commission on expansion arn't you?  Arn't you!

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

The problem with the polar bear is that they have exceeded their carrying capacity in the first place. Their population has grown to 45,000 from 5,000 in the 70s. The fact is that the polar bear scare is a sham so that environmental groups can gain power.

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

http://www.polarbearsinternational.org/bear-facts/ says there are 20-25000 polar bears.

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ ☭ Fokker

12 (edited by Justinian I 27-Nov-2009 21:39:47)

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

An advocacy site does not count as a valid research source.

Now here is a scientific article that offers more support to my points.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080508132549.htm

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

um 20,000 or 45,000, that's a lot more than 5,000


our country seems hell bent on destroying our economy

guess we'll feel better when our grandchildren sell concessions to China for factory cities, in lieu of debt payments

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

The news article you linked cited one study, "Polar Bear Population Forecasts: A Public Policy Forecasting Audit" by Armstrong et al. In the below link you will find how wrong it is. In summary, the rebuttal paper says Armstrong only audited 2 out 9 researches about polar bear projections, as well as violating projection criteria laid out by Armstrong himself. Claims laid by Armstrong are either misleading or simply mistaken.

http://interfaces.journal.informs.org/cgi/content/abstract/inte.1090.0444v1

In addition, Armstrong audited the research at the request of the State of Alaska, which has much commercial interest in Arctic drilling. Go figure.

"Prof. Armstrong and colleagues originally undertook their audit at the request of the State of Alaska"

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ ☭ Fokker

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

Yell, 1250 polar bears were hunted in 1968 and that's only 1 year. 5000 bears in the 1970s does not represent a stable population. 25% of the bear population does not pop out of nowhere. The growth in population between now and the 70s is population rebounding.

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ ☭ Fokker

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

Maybe in exchange for the rights to drill more the people of Alaska will take Polar Bears in as pets.  That way everybodies happy, The State get's to drill, the polar bears are protected, and for the bears they get access to an all you can maul buffet.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

The polar bear doesn't meet the technical requirements for endangered status. It's on the list because everyone today is a corrupt @$$hole without an education.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

to go from 5k to 20k is not a sign of endangerment

check the history of the condor, a truly f'd up species

this is what the environmental wackos call a "poster species" like the spotted owl or the panda, they want to destroy human development over a bioregion so they pick soemthing xtra cuddly and hype it

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

"The polar bear doesn't meet the technical requirements for endangered status."

Only if you're a climate change denialist

Endangered: An endangered species is a population of organisms which is at risk of becoming extinct because it is either few in numbers, or threatened by changing environmental or predation parameters.

Polar bear conservation notes:

"In 2006, the World Conservation Union (IUCN) upgraded the polar bear from a species of Least Concern to a vulnerable species. It cited a 'suspected population reduction of >30% within three generations (45 years)', due primarily to global warming. Other risks to the polar bear include pollution in the form of toxic contaminants, conflicts with shipping, stresses from recreational polar-bear watching, and oil and gas exploration and development. The IUCN also cited a "potential risk of over-harvest" through legal and illegal hunting."

"this is what the environmental wackos call a "poster species" like the spotted owl or the panda, they want to destroy human development over a bioregion so they pick soemthing xtra cuddly and hype it"

Okay, let's sue Coca Cola

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ ☭ Fokker

20 (edited by The_Yell 29-Nov-2009 05:38:58)

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

"Suspected population reduction over the next 45 years"??  When the hell did Minority Report become science fact?  Damn right I deny your psychic powers, professor xavier. I value 2009 $$ in my wallet more than the entire hypothetical biosphere of 2054. Besides the Dalek meteorite virus hits in 2037.

"Stresses related to recreational polar bear watching"???!!!

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

"When the hell did Minority Report become science fact?"

I think it's called modeling and projections. They do it in science and business to predict trends.

For example, cities use population projections to plan development and making sure enough water, food, transportation will be available to meet the increase in population growth.

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ ☭ Fokker

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

sure, but only an ass would have predicted the population growth of NYC 45 years out---its actually SMALLER than it was in WW2

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

So...what your saying is that scientists and state politicians personally went out and tagged 20k-50k polar bears with individual numbers from the 1970's till today?  Fact is the politicians are using scientific data based on that a certain # of polar bears were found in a 1 square mile radius.   They then assumed incorrectly that, that was the number of polar bears in every square mile of arctic tundra or alaskan wilderness.

Modeling and projections are completely worthless unless actual physical contact is made and the animal is tagged.  I mean, i'm pretty sure the alaskan governor is no Marlin Perkins, and that he doesn't play the Mutual of Omaha presents the Wild Kingdom card.  I'm pretty sure he doesn't even know who Marlin Perkins was.

But back in the 1970's we were shown television shows and movies of how splenderous were the amounts of wild life all over the world.   And we show the television shows and movies today, and it shows how devistated these animals had become due to human interferance and growth.   There's only a handful of animal species which have made comebacks from near destruction, the bald eagle being one of them. 

But I would never trust a politician coming up making a schpeel that there has been no impact on local fauna and wildlife after massive drilling and strip mining has occured in a large swath of land.

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

> sure, but only an ass would have predicted the population growth of NYC 45 years
> out---its actually SMALLER than it was in WW2

The population of New York City has grown by almost 1,000,000 since WW2.

I am sKoE
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get and beat you with to show you who's in command.

Re: Alaska : Endangered Species vs. Resource Production

They could relocate all the polar bears to Canada.

The inmates are running the asylum