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Topic: US has an historical (increase in) debt

It has nearly tripled in one year time. Now that is what I call dangerous.

I partly blame the obama admin for this:

I don't blame them for this:
Part is due to economic crisis which causes less tax income. That is hardly their fault.
Part is due to the wars.
You need some investment to let the econ recover (tough they overreacted)

But I do blame them for handing out so many of the tax payers money to "save" large companies. Without this, the debt would still be there but it wouldn't be as bad. I understand him saving the financial system, but he should have let big companies in the automobile industry go bankrupt. The main result would have been a change of management instead of a guarantee to more disasters.

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

The automobile industry, unlike the bankers and such, have a reputation of paying back their debts, which is why I was a little bewildered when they first asked for help they didn't receive any.  If they don't at least we're not paying for their new vacations.

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

even that is not a certainty... big_smile

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

Just look at it this way, you could have Berlusconi.

This forum is stupid.

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

lol

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6 Reply by The Yell (edited by Cobra Commander 18-Oct-2009 20:33:43)

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

"we're On The Express Elevator To Hell, Goin Downnnn!!!!!!"

all caps, damn you!! mad

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

Actually you can blame congress.  During every 4 year administration, whichever side held the most seats would push for a balanced budget, and the other side would shoot it down.  During one admistration, the republicans pushed for a balanced budget.  The democrats voted nay.  The following admistration were mostly democrats and they pushed for a balanced budget, and you think the republicans would go for it?  No, they voted nay.  So for the past 30 years, they been fighting over the right to be known as the party that passed a balanced budget bill.

You can't blame Obama, cause neither the democrat or republican party leaders got off their high horses, came across the table to shake hands, to stop any one term president from spending more than what's in the bank.

If you have to blame anyone, blame Howard Stern and the state legistlative branch.

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8 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 17-Nov-2009 05:42:50)

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

"
Part is due to economic crisis which causes less tax income. That is hardly their fault."

economic crisis doesnt magically cause debt. they had the option of cutting spending, increasing taxes, or increasing debt, and they chose to raise debt and thats 100% their fault.

"Part is due to the wars."

they are in no wars and they have the option to pull out of any policing actions they want, they also have the option to raise taxes to cover the millitary expenses, they decided to rais debt instead, thats 100% their fault.

"You need some investment to let the econ recover"

you need zero government investment to let the econ recover... they decided to, the ways they decided to invest that money was horrible and they wasted the majority of it.

"I understand him saving the financial system, but he should have let big companies in the automobile industry go bankrupt. The main result would have been a change of management instead of a guarantee to more disasters."

there are no auto-companies that have the capital to replace the production of the big three. if the big three went under, then all auto production in the US would of halted from all auto-companies, not just hte big three and the price for a new car in the US would of sky rocketed, and would of taken over a decade to return to normal.



no president or world leader is ever in ideal circumstances, to try to shrug off the Obama Administration's responsibilities for their actions because of less then ideal circumstances is despicable.

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

> Key wrote:

> Actually you can blame congress.  During every 4 year administration, whichever side held the most seats would push for a balanced budget, and the other side would shoot it down.  During one admistration, the republicans pushed for a balanced budget.  The democrats voted nay.  The following admistration were mostly democrats and they pushed for a balanced budget, and you think the republicans would go for it?  No, they voted nay.  So for the past 30 years, they been fighting over the right to be known as the party that passed a balanced budget bill.

You can't blame Obama, cause neither the democrat or republican party leaders got off their high horses, came across the table to shake hands, to stop any one term president from spending more than what's in the bank.

If you have to blame anyone, blame Howard Stern and the state legistlative branch.


the democrats have control of the house and the senate, they dont need to bargain with any republicans.   

if you want to blame someone and not the president, your best bet would be the american people, the masses have conflicting ideals that make balancing the budget political suicide.

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

Yes, blame the people for voting in for public servants, who then screwed the pooch.  Economically speaking.

Your right. I blame you. That's if your american.

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11 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 17-Nov-2009 07:07:07)

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

> Key wrote:

> Yes, blame the people for voting in for public servants, who then screwed the pooch.  Economically speaking.

Your right. I blame you. That's if your american.



im american, but my vote doesnt matter. voting is just a method of control. the media tells the masses what to think and then the masses vote 1 of 2 choices into office. i have no say, i have no voice. the only thing the government does with me is rob me of my hard earned money by threatening arrest and imprisonment if i dont give it to them quietly; i am a slave of the state; my goals and ambitions are irrelevant, only the goals and ambitions of the state are supported.

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

Your vote doesn't matter?  Your vote doesn't matter?!  That's like you saying, yes you voted for public officials into office, but that really wasn't your fault, especially when those public officials made poor decisions.

If the public officials which were given power by the american public do wrong to the american public then you have a voice for their immediate recall (removal).  You and other like minded individuals have the power and authority to replace them.

Otherwise the words, "WE THE PEOPLE...." are meaningless.

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

Those words ARE meaningless key.

I agree with avo that having an election system does not mean everyone has a vote. It only means a certain form of control. Its a power balance. The smarter the people vote, the better the system works. If the leading people succeed in misleading the people the system works less good. It has nothing to do with responsibility. Nor with a "voice" for everyone.

There are a whole lot of things in disfavor of the "smart vote" part.
1.) People need correct information. The media to name an important factor, is largely subjective.
2.) The average person isn't very brilliant. Lets face the truth here.
3.) You need a large amount of time to judge the persons in power
4.) People don't have inside information in a lot of official documents.

...and I can go on for hours. The only reason a democracy works is because it has a control system were a despotism has not.

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14 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 17-Nov-2009 23:48:40)

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

"Your vote doesn't matter?  Your vote doesn't matter?!  That's like you saying, yes you voted for public officials into office, but that really wasn't your fault, especially when those public officials made poor decisions."

i have never voted for someone that won by 2 votes or less. so my votes never made a difference, so nothing the government ever did was because of how i voted.

"You and other like minded individuals have the power and authority to replace them."

no, we dont have the power to remove them; because in a democracy the only group that has power is the majority.

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

> Little Paul wrote:

> Those words ARE meaningless key.

I agree with avo that having an election system does not mean everyone has a vote. It only means a certain form of control. Its a power balance. The smarter the people vote, the better the system works. If the leading people succeed in misleading the people the system works less good. It has nothing to do with responsibility. Nor with a "voice" for everyone.

There are a whole lot of things in disfavor of the "smart vote" part.
1.) People need correct information. The media to name an important factor, is largely subjective.
2.) The average person isn't very brilliant. Lets face the truth here.
3.) You need a large amount of time to judge the persons in power
4.) People don't have inside information in a lot of official documents.

...and I can go on for hours. The only reason a democracy works is because it has a control system were a despotism has not.


im not entirely convinced that the educated the voter the better the results....   there are intelligent people on both sides of every issue imo. education just means that you are more likely to be biased against some actions, and more willing to oppose them for irrational reasons. while people with less educated would be less likely to be biased towards something being voted on because they have never heard of it, and then they can look at the issue and vote based on merits.

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

Smart was a simplification. But it wasn't -in my plea- synonym for educated. This is unless you are referring to people needing the right info. But you need the brains as well ofc.

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

i think "wise" word be far better word

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

maybe, my knowledge of English is not adequate for that. But you get what I mean by now I guess.

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

and hire a bunch of unpaid interns!

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

but they play better football than belgium

The inmates are running the asylum

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Re: US has an historical (increase in) debt

everybody does

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