Topic: Afghanistan War

How does the West go about winning the Afghan war?

during the 19th & 20th centuries Great Britain failed several times to conquer A-stan.

the USSR invaded Afghanistan in 1979 but withdrew in 1989 after failing to conquer the country.

it is 8 years since the west entered A-stan and beat the Taliban. but they are back and inflicting continuing losses on the western forces.

so how do we win?

legitamite discussion please.

no 'nuke the bstads' comments plz.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

Re: Afghanistan War

They are inflicting losses on western forces indeed, but they are also killing innocent people who life in Afghanistan.

the whole idea about blowing yourself up and your going to ''heaven'' and get ''rewarded'' sounds a bit wrong doesn't it, since when does killing other people get rewarded, to my knowledge you only go to ''heaven'' if you've been a good human, that means no killing.

i dont care if those terrorist blow themselfs up, but do it in the cave next to your boss.
Atleast then your doing the world a favor, not by killing innocent people.

PS: i dont know why people still believe in heaven and hell and some ''god'' who made the world. Scientist have already explained how we came to be. If there was somekind of god then where are his parents, and his world? the whole god thing is nothing but a scame if you ask me.
Best selling book in the world aswell, god sells!

Re: Afghanistan War

Winning the war is simple. Ruin the population and build a colony.

Re: Afghanistan War

"no 'nuke the bstads' comments plz."

I think that's the problem, the Pentagon has decided "Given that we're not gonna fight the whole population and work within a national government that wants a truce, how do we win" and then they shuffle projects around like any failed corporation.

Today Adm Mullen Chairman of JCS said he's concerned with public support for the war falling. Dumbass this comes AFTER we hear the US is negotiating iwth the Taliban and after YOU testified to Congress" There is no military solution to this conlfict:"  if the WAR won't resolve the WAR with you leading it, why should we support the WAR?

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Afghanistan War

I say you send in Arnie.

This forum is stupid.

Re: Afghanistan War

> [TI] Mrblonde wrote:

> I say you send in Arnie. <

http://www.atom.com/funny_videos/sixty_seconds_arnold/

Re: Afghanistan War

You knows it.

This forum is stupid.

Re: Afghanistan War

If they cannot govern themselves without the warlords who take power being a threat to the world at large, nuke them. That's not a "nuke the bastards" comment, that's the only solution I see to barbarians who can be dangerous when they use the technology of civilized man posing a threat to innocent human beings.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Afghanistan War

there's two basic ways to deal with an insurrection based on communitarian ideology

either you hurt the community as a whole enough to convince the rebels back off due to the enormous negative costs their strategy is bringing
or
you convince the community as a whole to join your sides due to the enormous boons cooperation with you brings (potentially even including amnesties and pay offs and whatnot for the rebels) and/or the negative costs the rebels are bringing)

the second strategy is the hardest and costliest for yourself but the most successful in the long term

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Re: Afghanistan War

"comment, that's the only solution I see to barbarians"

Using any sort of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons against the
people of Afghanistan by the coalition will have massively negative effects.

No person in this, or the previous, U.S. administration is that stupid. Thankfully.


Propaganda will win the war.

I am sKoE
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get and beat you with to show you who's in command.

Re: Afghanistan War

Anybody still shooting at us, or looking the other way when people shoot at us, after 8 freakin years, is not a friend we haven't met.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Afghanistan War

There was an international uproar when, on Sept. 4, in Afghanistan's Kunduz province, an American fighter jet under NATO command bombed a group of Taliban fighters who had hijacked two fuel tanker trucks. The trucks exploded, the fighters were killed, and so were a still-undetermined number of Afghan civilians.

The civilian deaths sent shudders through the American military command, already fearful that civilian casualties would further alienate the Afghan public. Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the top American commander in Afghanistan, was said to be angry and determined to tighten the U.S. force's already-strict rules of engagement even more to avoid future civilian deaths.

Then something odd happened. When McChrystal met with local leaders in Kunduz, a few days after the bombing, he got an earful -- but not what he expected.

According to a detailed account in The Washington Post -- a story that has received too little attention in the ongoing debate over U.S. policy in Afghanistan -- the local Afghan leaders told McChrystal to stop being so fussy and to go ahead and kill the enemy, which they said would help bring stability to the region.

Post reporter Rajiv Chandrasekaran was given extraordinary access to the bombing investigation. According to his account, McChrystal began the meeting with a show of sympathy for those who had been killed or wounded. The general didn't get very far before he was interrupted by the provincial council chairman, Ahmadullah Wardak.

The security situation has been getting worse in Kunduz, Wardak told McChrystal. American and NATO troops haven't been aggressive enough in pursuing and killing the Taliban. In Wardak's view, the bombing of the fuel tankers, rather than a mistake, was the right thing to do.

"If we do three more operations like was done the other night, stability will come to Kunduz," Wardak said, according to the Post account. "If people do not want to live in peace and harmony, that's not our fault."

Chandrasekaran reported that McChrystal "seemed caught off guard." Wardak clarified a bit more: "We've been too nice to the thugs," he said.

So instead of receiving an angry lecture on America's disregard for Afghan life, the general received an angry lecture on America's hesitance to go after the enemy.

Cut from that scene to a letter written to Sen. Susan Collins last July. It was from a New Portland, Maine, man named John Bernard, father of Lance Cpl. Joshua Bernard, then serving with the Marines in Afghanistan.

John Bernard, himself a 26-year veteran of the Marines, was enraged by the military's new, restrictive rules of engagement in Afghanistan. The rules are "nothing less than disgraceful, immoral and fatal for our Marines, sailors and soldiers on the ground," Bernard wrote. Under those rules, U.S. forces "without reinforcement, denial of fire support and refusal to allow them to hunt and kill the very enemy we are there to confront are nothing more than sitting ducks."

The letter, disturbing at the time, became heartbreaking three weeks later, when Joshua Bernard was killed fighting the Taliban in Helmand province.

His death became national news when the Associated Press published a clearly inappropriate photo of Bernard as he lay wounded. But the bigger news should have been his father's concerns about the rules of engagement.

Now cut again, this time to Sept. 8, when four U.S. Marines were killed when the Taliban ambushed their patrol in Kunar province. The Marines were taken completely by surprise and pinned down under heavy Taliban fire. McClatchy reporter Jonathan Landay was with them and wrote a harrowing account of their desperate battle to survive.

The rules of engagement again played a role. "U.S. commanders, citing new rules to avoid civilian casualties, rejected repeated calls to unleash artillery rounds at attackers dug into the slopes and treelines," Landay wrote, "despite being told repeatedly that they weren't near the village."

President Obama is in the middle of a new reassessment of his original reassessment of the U.S. mission in Afghanistan. The big question consuming the press is whether Obama will send more troops, and if so, how many. But what American troops are actually doing in Afghanistan is even more important.

Will the president listen to John Bernard, to the troops who are fighting under tight restrictions, and even to Ahmadullah Wardak? Will he let them fight the fight? It's simply wrong to place Americans at risk otherwise.


Byron York, The Examiner's chief political correspondent, can be contacted at [email protected]. His column appears on Tuesday and Friday, and his stories and blog posts appears on www.ExaminerPolitics.com ExaminerPolitics.com.

*******************************************************************************************

This really pisses me off. For once I am ashamed to be an American, because we keep calling on NATO to join us like you promised, and then we won't fight to win it. 
I thought we learnt from Mogadishu that our riflemen can be the bravest in teh world but if they've got more enemies than bullets, they need support fire.  Guess not.
Our rifles are pretty wimpy too, because we figured "You can always use the .30 cal on your transport and the company mortar, and if that doesn't work, division will send air and artillery support. "  well they cant get the armor up there, the mortar is forbidden and the general doesn't want the enemy pissed at our asskicking brutality. SCREW THAT

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Afghanistan War

> is not a friend we haven't met.

Its difficult for the general population. The coalition could pull out at any time, meaning that
there would be an unstoppable resurgence of pro-Taliban fighters. This would be scary enough
to just stay out of everything they can -- and i don't blame them.

> civilian deaths

Like what i said -- propaganda will win the war. The Taliban has the upper hand, and will more
then likely drive the coalition out. Of course, the U.S. president will declare a "win" for democracy
and peace at the same time.

Oddly enough, though the most likely outcome.

The coalition is stuck between a rock and a crazy place -- theres little chance of winning a war without
civilian causalities. And each civilian that dies provides the Taliban the ammunition it needs.

I am sKoE
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get and beat you with to show you who's in command.

Re: Afghanistan War

um yeah, the unbearable outrageous total over the past 12 months is apparently 235 civilians killed... dude where has McChrystal been for 8 years?  if only 235 Iraqis got toasted in a MONTH Republicans would be celebrating the successful pacification of Iraq

Anybody that soft needs to go. NOW.  if "civilians" don't want to eat a Yank 155mm shell when we bomb the Taliban mortar in the barnyard, they can walk into Kyzrgystan.  Anybody still in the Taliban in 2009 is not there for the girls.  We might as well negotiate with the Hells Angels to become crossing guards.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Afghanistan War

Its relative, Chris. Absolute numbers aren't as important when it comes to propaganda...

I am sKoE
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get and beat you with to show you who's in command.

Re: Afghanistan War

Define "winning"

The inmates are running the asylum

Re: Afghanistan War

The surviving Taliban volunteer to go live at Gitmo

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Afghanistan War

Winning = After the coalition leave the country can stand on its own two feet
without the Taliban, or any other terrorist organisation, walking back in and
taking over.

I am sKoE
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get and beat you with to show you who's in command.

Re: Afghanistan War

heh or


winning = when the USA can setup a military base without it being attacked. and harvest all there heroin.

Anarchy

Re: Afghanistan War

> Zaige wrote:

> PS: i dont know why people still believe in heaven and hell and some ''god'' who made the world. Scientist have already explained how we came to be. If there was somekind of god then where are his parents, and his world? the whole god thing is nothing but a scame if you ask me.
Best selling book in the world aswell, god sells!

1) Scientists with that view would probably be shot over there.
2) Do they have the capacity to deal with a potentially 'scientific' explanation, when they don't have the background knowledge to understand why the weather changes? A god is a much simpler explanation.
3) Scientists have only given a theory that fits some available evidence smile They don't 'know'. But we wont get into that.

If Fridays for funerals, and Saturdays for brides,
I guess I'll take Sunday as mine.
Because on weekends, I perform miracles, turning paycheques into wine,
One working weeks wage at a time.

Re: Afghanistan War

1) Not relevant, though useful to point out that Islam is more inclusive of scientific theory on the universe than christianity is, and has been for some time...

2) We know why the weather changes, however we do not have the full computing power to predict the weather 100% at any meaningful future forecast, this is due to the complexitiy of the systems involved, not the lack of understanding of why.

3) Scientists have a theory which fits in the available evidence, and is also able to make predictions of future observations which have come correct (see WMAP results.) So what we have is a theory which shows as correct with all the available data, the ability to make predictions about things and evidence that said predictions are correct. What does intelligent design have?

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: Afghanistan War

> 2) We know why the weather changes,

We think we do. I'm sure there are factors that have yet to even be comprehended yet.

> What does intelligent design have?

Pretty pictures?

I am sKoE
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get and beat you with to show you who's in command.

Re: Afghanistan War

> You_Fool wrote:

> 3) Scientists have a theory which fits in the available evidence, and is also able to make predictions of future observations which have come correct (see WMAP results.) So what we have is a theory which shows as correct with all the available data, the ability to make predictions about things and evidence that said predictions are correct. What does intelligent design have?


One thing I want to address: Intelligent design is NOT a competitive theory with evolution or science.  It never was intended to be such.  Rather, its only purpose was to address the issue of whether or not creation and scientific theory (specifically, evolution) are mutually exclusive.  If you believe in intelligent design, you do believe in evolution.  You just have an additional stipulation on that belief.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Afghanistan War

Maybe I should of used different terminology, as I just used the more common intrepretation that ID = god created etc... I know it isn't really that... but meh...

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: Afghanistan War

ah yes, there was a war there..

till the end of time..