176 (edited by xeno syndicated 30-Jul-2009 01:19:29)

Re: Solution to socio-political-economic strife

Thus the question is, rephrased yet again, of those people who are making between 9-11 dollars / day, how many of them are living in poverty?

On a side note, I won't be online the next few days - vacation.

177 (edited by xeno syndicated 30-Jul-2009 10:21:27)

Re: Solution to socio-political-economic strife

Actually, have internet here for a bit.  Can anyone find the answer to the above?

What I eventually want to do is find data that shows how many people living in poverty are earning less than 9-$11, how many are earning 7-$9, 5-$7, 3-$5, $1.35-$3, and < $1.35 ($1.35 / day is the international poverty line).

However, I can't find anything.  Researchers don't seem to present data in that way. 

$1.35 / day - Does this mean that everyone earning at least that much must, therefore, not be living in poverty?   No.  It doesn't mean that.  Does it mean that everyone living below that benchmark is automatically living in poverty? No.  So what does this international poverty line mean? 

All the international poverty line suggests is that it is generally POSSIBLE to live beyond poverty earning at least more than $1.35 / day.  Where exactly someone could live beyond poverty on $1.35 a day, however, is unclear, but I assume it must be possible SOMEWHERE.  The international poverty line also suggests that it is generally IMPOSSIBLE for people earning less than $1.35 / day to live beyond poverty pretty much ANYWHERE on Earth.

However, this is not to say that there aren't at least some people earning less than $1.35 who are not living in poverty.  In fact, there is probably a certain percentage of people who are not earning as much as $1.35 who are living quite well.  But then there is also a percentage of people earning more than $1.35 who aren't - probably a VAST number.

What is it?  What is the number of people who, in spite of earning MORE than $1.35 / day, are still living in 'poverty'?

I don't know about you, but this fact is what I really want to know - this above fact would be a REALLY good indicator of how well our human civilization is fairing.

Re: Solution to socio-political-economic strife

I love how Xeno keeps rambling off about his $10 a day figure when he can't even dispute the fact that I've already shown how people can live off of less than $2 a day.

Until you can dispute that figure Xeno nothing you say will change the conclusion that people can live off of less than $2 a day, are NOT in poverty, and that current economic conditiosn are on track to meet expected urban development to stage 3 urban centers in approx 50 years.

Course you'll prob keep on ramling off useless conjectures with no facts to back it up, as is your norm. I <3 you you always run away from addressing specific facts.

Fear not the Darkness, for without it there is no Light. Embrace the Light, for it brings forth Darkness. Embrace both, to embrace the gift of Life. ~Kai Master Creed
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179

Re: Solution to socio-political-economic strife

Just because it MAY be possible to live off $2 / day, doesn't mean people do.

180

Re: Solution to socio-political-economic strife

Just answer the question, Lizon.  How many people who are earning between 9-11 dollars a day are nevertheless living in poverty?

Re: Solution to socio-political-economic strife

I see no point in answering a question that has no merit on the conversation at hand. Furthermore poverty numbers as stated before are meaningless when presented in historical context of the natural growth or urban centers. Which BTW was something that you yourself never disputed. You mearly said that current growth are not similar to historical refrences. Course you never presented anything that proved your case which isn't suprising.

This thread is over. You have no intention of providing evidence to support your claims or provide any evidence that disproves mine calims that have evidence to back them up. Your inability to obmit your own sources that violate standard proceadures is evident of the inappropiate means in which you drew your own conclusions. Your a xealot xeno, and I see no point in trying to have an intellectural conversation with someone who cannot comprehend such complex systems.

I'll start another thread later on with the relevent questions and possiable answers at a later date with refrence material to back it up. Then hopefully you'll see what an actual conversation looks like.

Fear not the Darkness, for without it there is no Light. Embrace the Light, for it brings forth Darkness. Embrace both, to embrace the gift of Life. ~Kai Master Creed
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Re: Solution to socio-political-economic strife

merely*
claims*
obmit?  Not even sure what that was supposed to be... maybe submit*
procedures*
zealot*
intellectual*
possible*
reference*


That was fun.  smile

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The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Solution to socio-political-economic strife

meh sorry, spellcheck isn't working the way it's supposed to. You know i'm better than that 99% of the time. tongue

Fear not the Darkness, for without it there is no Light. Embrace the Light, for it brings forth Darkness. Embrace both, to embrace the gift of Life. ~Kai Master Creed
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184 (edited by xeno syndicated 14-Aug-2009 09:04:03)

Re: Solution to socio-political-economic strife

Lizon,

It is erroneous to suggest that one's income level necessarily indicates one's actual poverty level.

$1 / day is probably enough on which for some people to live well.  So how many people who live on $1 / day are living well?

Conversely, there must be some people who are living in extreme poverty in spite of earning $10 / day.  So how many people who live on $10 / day are living in extreme poverty?

I can't find any of these stats.  Can you?  Why aren't these sorts of stats out there, I wonder?

Re: Solution to socio-political-economic strife

The tricky, behind-the-scenes Anglo-American Empire wants to mask the real scope of human suffering, as to keep people like you in a real bubble without any hope of bursting out.

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ &#9773; Fokker

186 (edited by xeno syndicated 18-Aug-2009 04:27:44)

Re: Solution to socio-political-economic strife

> Simon wrote:

> The tricky, behind-the-scenes Anglo-American Empire wants to mask the real scope of human suffering, as to keep people like you in a real bubble without any hope of bursting out.

Define "people like you".

And no, I don't think any "behind-the-scenes Anglo-American Empire" would have that sort of power.  I honestly don't think our academics have thought about poverty in that way; they haven't asked such questions, nor determined the answers to such questions; nor bothered to publicize their findings; nor bothered to notice the significance of such answers.

Let's take a hypothetical findings of such a study which determines the percentage of people living in extreme poverty by income.

Let's say the findings are as follows:

% Poverty living in extreme poverty / Daily Income

25% / $9 - $11

30% / $7-$9

45% / $5-$7

65% / $3-$5

75% / $1-$3

95% / >$1

If such were the findings of such a study, would it be more revealing of the issue of poverty than the current > $1 = extreme poverty scenario?

187 (edited by Lizon 19-Aug-2009 08:02:51)

Re: Solution to socio-political-economic strife

As I stated previously poverty needs to be addressed NOT on a global scale but on a country by country, city by city basis. It is the only way to accurately determine poverty rates. You keep trying to use these $1-$10 ratios and you don't realize that the AMOUNT is meaningless if the amount is sufficient for a particular region.

When you said things like "nobody can live off of $10 a day" I proved you wrong by showing you the actual cost of living in Mumbai that shows that people can live off of much less than $10 a day. The point was to try and get you off from trying to use a blanket global standard to determine global poverty. A point you obviously missed.

And you have failed to denounce your source and failed to discredit the cost of living breakdown I gave. And you have failed to denounce that the cities current economic and growth situations are out of the norm when compared to similar growth trends that were experienced in other cities around the world, specifically NYC, London, and Tokyo.

You just don't have a grasp on what the real global poverty situation looks like and don't really understand where these urban centers are going. All you see is the now, you don't see what was or what will be, it's a pity that your perception of the world is so narrow that you can't see the entire situation for what it really is.

Fear not the Darkness, for without it there is no Light. Embrace the Light, for it brings forth Darkness. Embrace both, to embrace the gift of Life. ~Kai Master Creed
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188 (edited by xeno syndicated 25-Aug-2009 12:10:36)

Re: Solution to socio-political-economic strife

"When you said things like "nobody can live off of $10 a day""

When did I say that?

"The point was to try and get you off from trying to use a blanket global standard to determine global poverty. A point you obviously missed."

Haha.  How ironic. 

"And you have failed to denounce your source and failed to discredit the cost of living breakdown I gave. And you have failed to denounce that the cities current economic and growth situations are out of the norm when compared to similar growth trends that were experienced in other cities around the world, specifically NYC, London, and Tokyo."

I haven't failed at anything.  I just haven't bothered presenting unnecessary, irrelevant, useless arguments.

"You just don't have a grasp on what the real global poverty situation looks like"

I'm sick and tired of such "you blah blah blah" comments.  Besides, who in the world does have a grasp of the global poverty situation?  You?  Obama?  The World Bank with their $1.3 / day global standard of poverty?

"It's a pity that your perception of the world is so narrow that you can't see the entire situation for what it really is."

And I suppose you do, right?  You are so full of yourself, and you have no clue how wrong you are.

You cannot perceive the world as you accuse me of being unable to.  You accuse me of ignorance, but you yourself are oblivious of the real nature of poverty in the world.  If you were so enlightened you would be able to answer the following question, and considering your position on this matter it would be in your best interest in this debate to answer it:

How many people earning less than $1 / day are NOT living in poverty?

Come now, you must be able to answer it, with your holistic enlightened perception of the 'real' situation of poverty in the world and all. 

Well, Lizon?

Hmm?

The answer is...?