51 (edited by Wild Flower Soul 06-Aug-2009 18:13:53)

Re: The all-Obama thread

Chavez and Castro are disputable leaders, but they don't really pose a threat to the USA, any action against them is thus a terrible waste of energy and money that can be used otherwise. Ahmadinijad is somewhat of a different case, but even there problems are solved by waiting: the current protests in his country show that the new generation's ready for a change, taking serious actions against his government now would rally the entire population against "the enemy"..
Also, he's getting your country a national healthcare! Finally! Welcome to the civilised world! According to studies, it'll even cost you less..

So far, Obama proved, at least in my opinion, to maintain a very clever, yet subtile, foreign affairs. You'll want him back when Palin's running for president tongue

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: The all-Obama thread

Actually Chavez is a threat because he is pumping aid to FARC and helping topple a US friendly govt in Colombia by backing revolutionaries in deep with cocaine cartels.  And also because lefties in Latin America make military deals wtih the Chinese and that can lead to China getting bases on this side of the Pacific.  And Afghanistan makes it clear NATO thinks a US-Asian war leaves them mostly neutral.

National healthcare will cost more unless Obama gets to ration it.  He is as gonzo as people who won't get their kids vaccinnated.  The average american wants a doctor to do 100 tests to be exactly sure why their elbow hurts, they expect a 2nd or third opinion before they get cut, we want the ick cut out before we'll take drug therapy for 20 years, and we want the special version that doesn't have all the gastric side effects before we'll settle for the generic brand.  obama cheerfully assures us we're on crack, which is why his poll numbers are falling like a socialist dropped out of an airplane.  This ain't holland where old people get urged to suck the gaspipe by the National Health Reichamt.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

53

Re: The all-Obama thread

here something for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJabPBjvXZU

"'******? Worthless things like that,
I never had them for as long as I can remember!"

Evil Dark Ninja Hargora

54 (edited by tavius 07-Aug-2009 08:19:52)

Re: The all-Obama thread

I think the vast majority of the deals the Chinese have with S.America are purely commercial with at most insignificant military/strategic overtones overall.

This is unlike the current U.S policy of encirclement of China with openly building and maintaining military bases in Central Asia, South Korea, Taiwan and Japan. In fact it seems the U.S is maintaining the ability to aerial bomb most Chinese civilian centres with its Pacific carrier fleets and bases in aforementioned countries without having to expect much in the way of similar reciprocation from the Chinese.

There was a big furore near a decade ago when a Chinese company bought up the Panama Canal and all the U.S conservatives at the time started screeching about how they were going to use it to block the U.S navy and stage a communist attack bla bla bla. Ten years on - nada.

China's rise has so far been peaceful and with the way it's engaging many countries with much deeper economic relationships there's little reason to believe it shouldn't remain so. Obama and Hillary know this which is why China has been continuing to help the U.S support its fiscal deficit.

Re: The all-Obama thread

"I think the vast majority of the deals the Chinese have with S.America are purely commercial with at most insignificant military/strategic overtones overall."

and you are basing this off of what? that Americans are evil and are always wrong with foreign policy?

56 (edited by tavius 07-Aug-2009 09:56:01)

Re: The all-Obama thread

Let's just say we haven't and most likely won't see a Chinese version of the "School of the Americas" opening anytime soon.

I'm actually a supporter of the U.S especially in its war on terror but I think there's a tendency within it to over-hype the China threat which ironically may actually lay the foundations for a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Apparently it was the same when the Japanese had the world's largest economy in the 80s. During that period they were depicted as amoral, near mindless automatons hell-bent on taking everything over and had to be closely watched ...etc. Just have to look at the films and literature from that era to notice the parallels of near-xenophobic suspicion.

Re: The all-Obama thread

A few years ago, I would have seen China as a threat but now....no.

Not only has China have a very weak infrestructure, but they have pollutted their land in thier quest to make their nation a superpower. A few good missile strikes by our forces could cripple China's ability to make war on the US if that ever happened. There is also the fact that China and the US's economies are too interlocked, one cannot go to war against the other without wiping out their economy in the process.

Re: The all-Obama thread

>>There is also the fact that China and the US's economies are too interlocked, one cannot go to war against the other without wiping out their economy in the process.<<

They used to say that about Germany and the UK
Our federal govt would have a bad time, our national economy isn't dependent on them.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: The all-Obama thread

"They used to say that about Germany and the UK"

yeah, but the degree to which economies in the world are interlinked is much higher now then prior to wwII.

"Our federal govt would have a bad time, our national economy isn't dependent on them."

what happens to their money they lent to us? is it forgiven because the lender is no longer alive? might be better for our economy if we wipe out China and Japan tongue

Re: The all-Obama thread

the official govt position is that OF COURSE China will keep lending to us, they have nowhere else to go!

just like they said the stock market wouldn't let us down and home mortgage lending was the unstoppable gold stream

many people say we'll wait for hyperinflation and then pay them off.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: The all-Obama thread

right now its win win; China has a market to sell its products because their currency is weak compared to the USD because they keep buying the USD; and the US is getting products cheaper then they could produce. as long as they're benefiting from investing their money in us, i dont see why they would stop.

Re: The all-Obama thread

Because we're at a point where they are being repaid interest with the money they spend buying new bonds

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

63 (edited by Little Paul 11-Aug-2009 21:22:29)

Re: The all-Obama thread

@wfs:
Only thing obama has proved to do so far is spending an enormous amount of tax payers money to save the creators of the problems asses. Whether you are left or right you cannot deny what happened: Some people f.u. big time, were allowed to be greedy, helped creating a crisis, and then they got tax money thrown at them so they can do it again. Its a very dangerous state of affairs when a president get away with something like that. Its beyond believe. Its not about a few cents but an insane amount of money.

I'm very skeptical about the reform in health care. If he does it right, I will be the first to admit it, but till then I do not believe it will happen. Even if he tries, Its unsure if he has enough power and influence to make it happen.

Re: The all-Obama thread

Obama's doing the right thing. The U.S cannot afford a prolonged period of deflation which is what would occur if many of these financial institutions were simply allowed to fail. Look at the ridiculous levels of public, corporate and private household debt all across the U.S. A strong period of deflation would easily put a large part of the U.S into bankruptcy.

The Chinese aren't investing in U.S treasury bills for the return, many of the bonds were bought at very low yields. ATM China has decided to continue to support U.S spending but definitely has other places to look if it chooses (copper, oil...etc, other countries' debt).

Re: The all-Obama thread

Ok deflation and bankruptcy

So what?

Beats printing money every dozen years to bail out the fortune 500

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: The all-Obama thread

obviously inflation because of too much spending is better than deflation. deflation is infact 10 times worse

Re: The all-Obama thread

Barak's Bitching Fried Chicken & Watermelon Party
BYOB
Blue Drink provided free of charge.

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

Re: The all-Obama thread

No, inflation is 10 times worse.  the last experience of deflation occurred before the welfare state.  People are not going to starve when a $5 buys 2 loaves of bread, a canned ham and three heads of lettuce again. people WILL go hungry when $5 won't buy a loaf of sliced white.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: The all-Obama thread

they wont starve, but they'll die at 30 dipshit

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

Re: The all-Obama thread

from WHAT? Oh right all the engines are gonna stop...guess we'll have to do what we always do: hold the world hostage with nuclear weapons

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: The all-Obama thread

ummmmmm.......from whitebread, canned ham and iceburg lettuce.

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

Re: The all-Obama thread

why? that's good eating

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: The all-Obama thread

@tavius:
Companies don't fail, they got sold out. It has always been like that and its a good thing. Bad management means others take over.

Re: The all-Obama thread

I like Jim Rogers and Marc Faber as much as the next guy (The timing of Marc Faber's investment advice is more often right than not) but you have to remember that they both come from a very severe Austrian School view of economics which is considered the opposite extreme of Marxian economics.

The truth is there wasn't really anyone around who had the financial strength to take over these failing companies, ride through the crisis and trade out of their positions at profit or break-even. You're talking about companies like AIG which had -trillions- of dollars worth of derivatives exposure. Around the world, you had individual banks which were holding assets worth more than their entire home country on paper. Many of the takeovers and buyouts which did take place within the financial sector were only achieved with government assistance.

Not to mention the counter-party risk, if a company like AIG fails it has a domino effect on those who it's borrowed from, others holding similar assets they are...etc. Soon enough even what should have been perfectly fine companies become failing ones and so on.

The current solution being implemented globally isn't ideal but the alternative of inaction is much worse.

Re: The all-Obama thread

I'd prefer they failed and we had a decentralized economy than the status quo: their basic insolvency is not addressed, we squandered nearly 8% GDP, and there's a political commitment to bail them out forever.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.