Login is disabled. This forum is read-only.
Imperial Forum → Politics → Iranian Election Watch
Seems like things are getting nasty out there. As I said so many years on this forum now, one day the Iranians will revolt. Today might be the day but if not its only a matter of time. The citizens of Iran just don't take it no more. But if so, I do hope they get the support they need in this battle.
Agreed with LP. Hopefully, some Western nations will quietly lend military support to revolutionaries in Iran, and be willing to lend support in securing the country's nuclear facilities.
The one thing that worries me about a revolution in Iran is that the chaos created during the coup would possibly allow one of the secret nuclear facilities in Iran to be overlooked due to simple lack of intelligence. But if the new government would allow Western nations to assist their securing of nuclear assets, that could be fixed. 
"Agreed with LP."
I encourage people to use that sentence as a signature.
Uh oh! Another overblown ego! I'll fix it! Who has a pin I can borrow?
How says these rioters have the majority?
The fact that foul play was necessary to retain power.
A foul election proves nothing about the majority mindset or support...
"A foul election proves nothing about the majority mindset or support..."
They would not risk to cheat if they were certain of victory. Next to that the amount of people protesting in the streets despite the huge risks show they have at least the fanatic support of a large minority. But I think, given more then a million people who face the risk of torture or being shot still protest it reflects a majority in Iran.
Also the increasing restrictions upon foreign journalists and the amount of journalists who have been expelled show how worried the current Iranian gov really is, and they have more information as we have.
Friday might be the start of larger riots, and larger riots are in favor of the protesters. They will play the card of the big conspiracy of the western world against Iranians noble and just people but maybe it won't do the trick this time.
All in all I would favor a revolution now while Iran doesn't have a nuclear arsenal.
I like how you want proof while you ignore all evidence, morbo. 
How did they count 30 million votes in an hour, anyway?
Advanced computer voting systems can process many more votes in less time!
Oh, wait, their way of making sure nobody votes twice is by putting ink on thumbs. Nevermind!
> They would not risk to cheat if they were certain of victory.
Irrelevant. Winning does not indicate cheating.
> Next to that the amount of people
A mere few hundred thousand. Compared to the few million population. You also neglect
to indicate that thousands of people also attended the winning celebrations and pro-Ahmadinejad
rallies.
> protesting in the streets despite the huge risks show they have at least the fanatic support of
> a large minority. But I think, given more then a million people who face the risk of torture or
> being shot still protest it reflects a majority in Iran.
I think not.
A minority of the population rioting under the conditions of death and torture does not automatically
switch that minority to a majority. Its still a minority.
> Also the increasing restrictions upon foreign journalists and the amount of journalists who have
> been expelled show how worried the current Iranian gov really is, and they have more information
> as we have.
Yeah, it's totally bogus that a government will lock down possible foreign sources of rioting and
attempt to limit the degree that rioters cause civil unrest by limiting the outside factors fueling
the fires. Curse them!
> Friday might be the start of larger riots, and larger riots are in favor of the protesters. They
> will play the card of the big conspiracy of the western world against Iranians noble and just
> people but maybe it won't do the trick this time.
Of course, but the rioters still have the minority. Friday might also see the end of all riots.
Your logic is flawed, i'm sorry to say. I personally would have liked Moussavi to win -- but just because
he didn't i'm not going to go around calling an apple an orange...
> Blind Guardian wrote:
> I like how you want proof while you ignore all evidence, morbo.
How did they count 30 million votes in an hour, anyway?
They didn't. Not to mention that precincts were reporting more ballots than were registered voters in their areas. There are screencaps of the news with the election results showing one candidate's votes suddenly dropped by about 45k votes. The number of votes should never go down. The whole thing is fishy.
http://loft965.com/2009/06/17/picture-that-proves-iran-election-rigging/
Has the screencap of the tv broadcast with election results. Below the pics are an english summary of what the pics are.
More reason that the election is being called a fraud is because exit polls were putting the incumbent in 3rd. There are now reports on twitter that the guy who leaked those election results has been killed. There is now a website up where most of the information is being collected and discussed. http://iran.whyweprotest.net/index.php The Pirate Bay is also showing support for the Iranian people by changing their logo to a green ship and with the words "The Persian Bay." I don't think the protests would have continued much longer if the internet hadn't rose up to help keep the Iranian people connected to the outside world. One day, cults and dictators will learn not to piss off the internet.
"Irrelevant. Winning does not indicate cheating."
well answer to the arguments of twisted and BG first if you're not convinced I give you mine as well.
"A mere few hundred thousand. Compared to the few million population."
1.) They are not that mobile. 1 million at one place in this huge country is a lot of people. The amount of people who are actually able to protest is much much lower then the current population. Note that less people have the luxury there to take a day off. Note that less people there have a car. Note that you have a certain percentage of old people and children.(though the first one is a small group). Note the size of the country even if it was not mountainous. Note the lack of information because they have no independent media so they will always be unsure what to find when they arrive.
2.) Some of them are/will be shot
3.) Some of them are/will be tortured
4.) They have little perspective on a favorable outcome
5.) A lot of leaders amongst the protesters have been captured
The number is rather large compared to manifestations here where it is far easier to protest and you don't need to fear anything. 1 million. It can't get much larger.
"You also neglect to indicate that thousands of people also attended the winning celebrations and pro-Ahmadinejad
rallies."
That is actually very very little compared to 1million people and considering they have the state tv @their side.
"A minority of the population rioting under the conditions of death and torture does not automatically
switch that minority to a majority. Its still a minority."
It are very convincing arguments not to protest. Its the solid basis for a dictatorship. It can effectively hide a silent majority. In any case it shows the determination of the protesters and that is also important.
"Yeah, it's totally bogus that a government will lock down possible foreign sources of rioting and
attempt to limit the degree that rioters cause civil unrest by limiting the outside factors fueling
the fires. Curse them!"
You make it seem like the riots are directly fueled by foreign influences. Indirectly this might certainly be true but directly they might merely be influenced a little by foreign Iranians but that is not the only group of people they expel neither was it the group I was talking about.
Journalists merely try to shoot as much pictures as they can and get more info. They try to stay low profile. They do not light the fires.
"Of course, but the rioters still have the minority. Friday might also see the end of all riots. "
There is a big chance fires will eventually die out but I keep my hopes up.
> well answer to the arguments of twisted and BG first if you're not
> convinced I give you mine as well.
It doesn't matter what i think. Winning does _NOT_ automatically mean that someone
cheating. Thats foolish logic.
> 1.) They are not that mobile. 1 million at one place in this huge country is a lot of people.
I sincerely doubt any demonstration over the past weeks has amassed 1 million people, even in total
spread across the country. There is no proof of these numbers, so you might as well just say 1 BILLION
people are rioting.
> 2.) Some of them are/will be shot
How is that relevant? I know if my fellow Australians would riot here i would assume (and expect) them to
be punished too. Iran isn't the most well-equipped country, and the force trying to police the streets wouldn't
exactly be a bunch of 'nice guys'.
This doesn't guarantee any cheating though. This guarantees a brutal and outdated police force.
> 3.) Some of them are/will be tortured
Again, this has nothing to do with cheating.
> 4.) They have little perspective on a favorable outcome
Again, this has nothing to do with cheating.
> 5.) A lot of leaders amongst the protesters have been captured
Again, this has nothing to do with cheating. They are VIOLENTLY RIOTING after all.
> That is actually very very little compared to 1million people and considering they
> have the state tv @their side.
Again more exaggerations. Neither of us are there, perhaps the supporters of Ahmadinejad wish
to stay inside. They might want the situation to quickly dissolve, and don't want to create VIOLENT
clashes with another mob.
> It are very convincing arguments not to protest. Its the solid basis for a dictatorship. It can
> effectively hide a silent majority. In any case it shows the determination of the protesters and
> that is also important.
Tough anti-rioting laws and procedures doesn't indicate any wrong doing. In fact, if the elections WERE
fair and correct, then the country would be democratic. You are using the label 'dictatorship' based on
the assumption that the elections were rigged. Then you attempt to explain why people WONT protest
based on the label.
Don't make assumptions.
> You make it seem like the riots are directly fueled by foreign influences. Indirectly this might certainly
> be true but directly they might merely be influenced a little by foreign Iranians but that is not the only
> group of people they expel neither was it the group I was talking about.
I never said that foreign influences WERE fueling the riots. I'm saying they could.
The difference being that certain governments (*Cough* U.S. & Russia *Cough*) have proven that they
cannot stay out of other countries democratic elections. They have repeatedly either interferrred with the
organisation and creation of riots, or they have removed elected representatives of the people and replaced
them with harsh dictators.
I'm NOT assuming thats what is happening. I doubt it is. But Iran has the right to defend itself against such
attacks and its obviously something they don't want to occur. Necessary precautions do NOT indicate any
wrong doing by the Iranian government.
They could well be trying to keep the peace...
> Journalists merely try to shoot as much pictures as they can and get more info. They try to stay low
> profile. They do not light the fires.
FSB and CIA agents on the other hand, as well as other operatives and people groomed by these agencies,
might other the other hand cause trouble.
You are assuming that because SOME journalists want to shoot pictures that ALL journalists do. This is an
invalid assumption.
> There is a big chance fires will eventually die out but I keep my hopes up.
Ah, so you are admitting your completely obvious bias opinion is constructed due to you WANTING the Iranian
population to riot and overrun the government. Makes sense.
I also want change, but that doesn't mean i'm going to start calling pineapples oranges, now am i?
But pineapples ARE oranges! What the hell are you talking about?
They've never had free media because they protect their ability to rig these things. Pretending it isn't going on is just ignorant.
> But pineapples ARE oranges! What the hell are you talking about?
Lies!
> They've never had free media because they protect their ability to
> rig these things. Pretending it isn't going on is just ignorant.
Not sure if thats aimed at me; if it is i haven't pretended anything.
> Morbo the Annihilator wrote:
> > But pineapples ARE oranges! What the hell are you talking about?
Lies!
Oh, great, one of THOSE people! Let me guess! Next, you're going to say that, in fact, Eastasia has been the enemy of our great Oceania, while Eurasia has always been our ally. Right?
> Oh, great, one of THOSE people! Let me guess! Next, you're
> going to say that, in fact, Eastasia has been the enemy of our
> great Oceania, while Eurasia has always been our ally. Right?
wtf does politics have to do with fruit :S
Hurrah
Down with the dictators!
Death to the ayatollahs!
God is great!
@Blind Guardian:
In the other thread you are complaining that Ilu is a troll, but you troll here?
Weird.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?eurl=http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/06/21/2009-06-21_neda_young_girl_killed_in_iraq.html&feature=player_embedded&v=OjQxq5N--Kc
...
Imperial Forum → Politics → Iranian Election Watch
Powered by PunBB, supported by Informer Technologies, Inc.