1 Topic by Little Paul (edited by Little Paul 02-Jun-2009 15:05:08)

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Topic: GM to be a national company

Incredible Obama gets away with this. Pretend you save the econ and jobs and it seems you can do anything.

First he saves a company which needed a clean-up instead. He puts massive amounts of money into this company to save jobs. But then he demands they needed to be more profitable by sacking people. I don't get it. Anyway the taxpayers will pay for it and they pay for years of bad management.

In my opinion it would have been better if the company had to sell out. Selling GM would only have meant other people in charge of the automobile industry in the US. Its not like nobody in the US would buy a car anymore and that is the main engine behind this branch. The company might have been split up in different parts ok but that would simply have meant more competition.

The end-phase is simply astonishing. Give the tax payer 100% risk of a failing company in exchange for less competition and partly the same management (or worse, gov officials). If that is not enough, he will sell the company again, in one part, and probably for a low price. So the taxpayer pays again.

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Re: GM to be a national company

Oh but Geitner wants you to know, Obama has no interest in running a car company.  he'll take equity but he's not interested. 

And don't call it socialism.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: GM to be a national company

Yeah, I'm loving the outright lies while they work to cause the _exact_ opposite of what they claim to want.

The sad thing is that it's all of America that has to suffer for the _retarded_ ones numerous enough to vote in this failure. Every day the news brings more tidings that I will probably have to explain to my children that the USA was once different, ahead of the entire world.

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Re: GM to be a national company

Nobody wants to buy a company that loses BILLIONS every month.

The inmates are running the asylum

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Re: GM to be a national company

GM was gonna import parts from China but the Union Owners put the kibosh on that

Screw the bottom line!

BUY FORD

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: GM to be a national company

This thread fails.

"In my opinion it would have been better if the company had to sell out."

Sell it to whom exactly? Assuming that someone did buy this bankrupt company, it wouldn't be American investors, which defeats the purpose of boosting the American economy.


"Its not like nobody in the US would buy a car anymore and that is the main engine behind this branch"

People are buying cars worldwide at an all time low. Considering that America's unemployment level is still super high, the chances of people buying cars at a rate to keep GM stables is low. Are you planning on buying a new car next year? =o How many of your friends? Family?


"Give the tax payer 100% risk of a failing company in exchange for less competition and partly the same management (or worse, gov officials"

Its not about appeasing the tax payer, there are thousands of people who stand to lose jobs/homes if GM goes completely under. Those are the people that demand priority. Michigan gains a lot of its income from the Detroit automobile companies. Ford, GM, Chrysler. Of these 3, GM is the biggest (unless I am mistaken). The hit to this state and the people who would be affected by the domino effect is pretty detrimental. You need to look at the much bigger picture. This economy has been shitty for quite some time. Unfortunately the people in the white house prior to Obama didn't do enough to manage it when it was manageable so now every move is sensitive and risky.

By saving jobs temporarily, you still hurt the people that do have the jobs. Everything is on thin ice right now. Deal with it.

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Re: GM to be a national company

>>Sell it to whom exactly? Assuming that someone did buy this bankrupt company, it wouldn't be American investors, which defeats the purpose of boosting the American economy.<<

Since they gotta get govt permission to import labor, or hire locally, who cares?  Should we kick the Dutch and British out because their money's foriegn?


>>People are buying cars worldwide at an all time low. Considering that America's unemployment level is still super high, the chances of people buying cars at a rate to keep GM stables is low. Are you planning on buying a new car next year? =o How many of your friends? Family?<<

That argues against Obama promising us our money back...I will NEVER buy a 'new' car in a state that taxes me 3% of the car's value.

>>Its not about appeasing the tax payer, there are thousands of people who stand to lose jobs/homes if GM goes completely under. Those are the people that demand priority. Michigan gains a lot of its income from the Detroit automobile companies. Ford, GM, Chrysler. Of these 3, GM is the biggest (unless I am mistaken). The hit to this state and the people who would be affected by the domino effect is pretty detrimental. You need to look at the much bigger picture. This economy has been shitty for quite some time. Unfortunately the people in the white house prior to Obama didn't do enough to manage it when it was manageable so now every move is sensitive and risky.

By saving jobs temporarily, you still hurt the people that do have the jobs. Everything is on thin ice right now. Deal with it.<<

Throw them over the side, because they're still gonna go under and socialism drags us all down.  WTF do you think 700 million Europeans put up with our crap, its because they can't lift themselves out of a ditch no matter how many Presidents has heads up their ass in a row.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: GM to be a national company

no auto companies have the money to invest by buying GM. GM shuts down and car parts companies go bankrupt and no longer makes car parts, without those car parts companies, Ford and Chrysler cant build shit and have to close down, so practically no cars will be built in the US, and the price of cars will go up significantly in the US and most of them will be imported and will contribute to a growing trade deficit in the US. oh yeah, and if all these large companies, the car companies and car part companies close down, gonna have to rely on other companies to manufacture military vehicles for the US military. Eventually, Toyota and other car companies will be able to invest more in manufacturing in the US and prices will go back down, but would probably take at least 10 years for the infrastructure to be rebuilt.

with that said, GM will declare bankruptcy, Obama will most likely keep them pumping out cars and if they can do it, Ford stands a chance of staying up by themselves.

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Re: GM to be a national company

That's the beauty of capitalism. If you suck, you die, and someone else takes over. That's what we conservatives want enforced, and we don't care about the cost.

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Re: GM to be a national company

Yeah GM doesn't need car money, it just needs money. It could borrow from online porn moguls...except porn money is too smart to get stuck in GM

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: GM to be a national company

Online porn moguls could probably make better cars.

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Re: GM to be a national company

Doubt it.  The car would probably end up having a wine cabinet where normal cars had engines.

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13 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 03-Jun-2009 00:14:21)

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Re: GM to be a national company

> Justinian I wrote:

> That's the beauty of capitalism. If you suck, you die, and someone else takes over. That's what we conservatives want enforced, and we don't care about the cost.



yep, and thats where i draw the line, people that dont care whats best for the country as long as their ideals are met, and those that actually care about the country. and it isnt you suck you die, its 1 company sucks and the entire inudstry in the country is going to die.  and years and years of government regulation and government restrictions, that have gimped the big three and then abondoning them when they have trouble, is not capitalism.

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Re: GM to be a national company

> Zarf BeebleBrix wrote:

> Doubt it.  The car would probably end up having a wine cabinet where normal cars had engines. <

I fail to see how this is bad?

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Re: GM to be a national company

> people that dont care whats best for the country as long as their ideals are met,
> and those that actually care about the country

Its not about whats best. Its the peoples voice.

The American people voted, its called "DEMOCRACY". If you don't like the end result,
move to North Korea.

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Re: GM to be a national company

As long as GM don't start churning out Soviet Ladas or East German Trabants it can't be too bad. In view of recent events however I believe there may need to be some slight alterations to the stars & stripes. Perhaps the addition of the hammer & sickle would be appropriate.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

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Re: GM to be a national company

> Morbo the Annihilator wrote:

> Its not about whats best. Its the peoples voice.

The American people voted, its called "DEMOCRACY". If you don't like the end result,
move to North Korea.



Democracy dies the moment people realize they can vote to give themselves money.

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Re: GM to be a national company

wtf is an Australian gonna lecture me on democracy?  We got a constitution not a royal charter or whatever the hell you got in the merry old land of Oz

Ford, GM and Chrysler aint the american auto industry... dot dot dot

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: GM to be a national company

Now Tesla is the american auto industry

The inmates are running the asylum

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Re: GM to be a national company

I find it ironic that the UAW is now a major shareholder in GM and Chrysler. It may end up being a good thing, no longer can they make unreasonable demands on those companies because it will cause them to continue to fail, thus ruining their nice cushy benefits. ^.^

Ford at least has some business sence, if I were to buy an american car it would have to be a Ford. Course I have no reason to leave Toyota atm .

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Re: GM to be a national company

You should leave Toyota because (A) they burn rice and shoot it out their talepipes and (B) I CAN BENCH PRESS YOUR CAR. And that just ain't right.

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Re: GM to be a national company

you mean other then Toyota's being ugly pieces of shit? come on man, at least get a honda.

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Re: GM to be a national company

@esa and avo:
"Nobody wants to buy a company that loses BILLIONS every month."
Funny thing is, they sold the hummer today and they announced the sell out of the saturn and the saab. The difference is that under normal circumstances they would have gained more money.

"yep, and thats where i draw the line, people that dont care whats best for the country as long as their ideals are met, and those that actually care about the country. and it isnt you suck you die, its 1 company sucks and the entire inudstry in the country is going to die."
That is were you are wrong. There will be as much industry as people willing to buy cars. Its not because its called GM it doesn't function. If no-one wants to buy the car you pay to produce something nobody wants and no country in the world can afford such stupidity. Its one of both. Its exactly in the interest of the average American not to follow this strategy imo.

"and years and years of government regulation and government restrictions, that have gimped the big three and then abondoning them when they have trouble, is not capitalism."
Mistakes of the past that have been tolerated to long. It made for a monopoly and bad management.

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Re: GM to be a national company

"The American people voted, its called "DEMOCRACY". If you don't like the end result,
move to North Korea."
zarf, its the other way around. Here you can disagree with any policy to a certain extend. tongue Ok, I know you were joking right.

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Re: GM to be a national company

It's the last defense of the indefensible to tell the other party to leave if they don't like it. As long as the indefensible is actually being enacted they presume it has some inherent legitimacy which is beyond legitimate question (ie, as long as it's being done they'll always feel they win in defending it, regardless of the facts and if their defense makes any sense). When you can't tell someone they're wrong, you can still tell them to go away. tongue

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