1.
      Start of #guide buffer: Thu May 28 02:35:08 2009[22:24] * Now talking in #guide
   2.
      [22:24] * Topic is 'Leadership Tomorrow 2PM & 11PM GMT!'
   3.
      [22:24] * Set by OrBit!joemillard3@cpc2-pool12-2-0-cust285.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com on Wed May 27 02:28:44
   4.
      [22:24] * ChanServ sets mode: +oa parrot parrot
   5.
      [22:41] * arsy|work has joined #guide
   6.
      [22:42] * Squeaky|SLEEP has joined #guide
   7.
      [22:43] * Squeaky|SLEEP is now known as Squeaky
   8.
      [22:54] * sir_ontario has joined #guide
   9.
      [22:56] <parrot> sup
  10.
      [22:56] <Squeaky> nothing
  11.
      [22:56] * parrot sets mode: +o Zidi
  12.
      [22:56] <parrot> where is ur op ziditroll
  13.
      [22:56] * Zidi shrugs
  14.
      [22:56] <Zidi> no-one gave me it
  15.
      [22:57] <sir_ontario> did i miss it?
  16.
      [22:58] <Squeaky> it hasnt started yet
  17.
      [22:58] <sir_ontario> good
  18.
      [22:59] <sir_ontario> how much longer before it does?
  19.
      [22:59] <Squeaky> if it starts at 2PM GMT like its said, then 3 min
  20.
      [23:00] <sir_ontario> what do you mean if?
  21.
      [23:00] <Squeaky> well maybe it will start at 205?
  22.
      [23:01] <parrot> wait
  23.
      [23:01] <parrot> its today?
  24.
      [23:01] <parrot> shit
  25.
      [23:01] <iluvatar>
  26.
      [23:01] <parrot> i didnt even prepare anything!!!
  27.
      [23:01] <parrot> lol
  28.
      [23:01] <iluvatar> teach me!
  29.
      [23:01] <parrot> stupid australian time!
  30.
      [23:01] <parrot> apparently orbit cant make it
  31.
      [23:01] <parrot> he is kinda gay
  32.
      [23:01] * Primo slaps Zidi around a bit with a large trout
  33.
      [23:01] <Squeaky> lol
  34.
      [23:01] <Squeaky> Zidi said the same thing last night:P
  35.
      [23:01] * OperServ sets mode: -o Zidi
  36.
      [23:02] * Primo whistles
  37.
      [23:03] <Zidi> Lol.
  38.
      [23:03] <Zidi> So Parrot, going to teach them how to rape defenseless nolio's ?
  39.
      [23:03] * James|sunstorm has joined #guide
  40.
      [23:03] <parrot> yes
  41.
      [23:03] <parrot> thats an easy one
  42.
      [23:03] <parrot> find a fam with internal conflict
  43.
      [23:04] <parrot> and hit them hard!
  44.
      [23:04] <Primo> read:
  45.
      [23:04] <Primo> find flint
  46.
      [23:04] <Primo> and hit him hard
  47.
      [23:05] <iluvatar> hey
  48.
      [23:05] <iluvatar> HEY
  49.
      [23:05] <iluvatar> HEY HEY HEY
  50.
      [23:05] <iluvatar> no trolling flint!
  51.
      [23:05] <Zidi> Uhm, so whos here for the teaching/
  52.
      [23:05] <iluvatar> i wont stand for it damned X(
  53.
      [23:05] <parrot> Session One: Leadership
  54.
      [23:05] <parrot> - Why lead?
  55.
      [23:05] <parrot> - understanding your role (what people expect of you)
  56.
      [23:05] <parrot> - motivation
  57.
      [23:05] <parrot> - organisation
  58.
      [23:05] <parrot> - relations
  59.
      [23:05] <parrot> - communication
  60.
      [23:05] <parrot> - goal acheivement
  61.
      [23:05] <parrot> - understanding competition
  62.
      [23:05] <parrot> - future planning and strategy
  63.
      [23:05] <parrot> - economy vs conflict
  64.
      [23:05] <parrot> - honour
  65.
      [23:05] <parrot> - discipline
  66.
      [23:05] <iluvatar> i am
  67.
      [23:06] <parrot> this will be our topics of discussion for the day
  68.
      [23:06] <Zidi> WEll that was easy. Time to go parrot?
  69.
      [23:06] * grumf has joined #guide
  70.
      [23:06] <parrot> sure thing zidi u may speak first as u owned me a few rounds back
  71.
      [23:06] <grumf> parrot how do you deal with pirates?
  72.
      [23:06] <parrot> and u are one of the few leader leading this icpg with the iq in the triple digits
  73.
      [23:06] <Zidi> rofl Facebook tells me ts like 149
  74.
      [23:06] <parrot> so clap for zidi
  75.
      [23:06] <parrot> facebook is for faggots
  76.
      [23:06] <parrot> i am sorry
  77.
      [23:07] * iluvatar claps like a mute seal
  78.
      [23:07] * Zidi doesnt go on much
  79.
      [23:07] <parrot> anyway lets not get side tracked
  80.
      [23:07] <Zidi> Facebook is for procrastinators
  81.
      [23:07] <Zidi>
  82.
      [23:07] <parrot> soo why would anyone want to lead?
  83.
      [23:07] <parrot> zidi why do u enjoy leading?
  84.
      [23:07] <grumf> because you get a purple name tag
  85.
      [23:07] <Squeaky> its more intersting?
  86.
      [23:08] <Zidi> Well, for me, I prefer leading because i like thinking, and making strategies.
  87.
      [23:08] <sir_ontario> cause it's the only way for some of us to be the boss of ppl
  88.
      [23:08] <parrot> i see ur point ontario
  89.
      [23:08] <parrot> yes strategies
  90.
      [23:08] * grumf has left #guide
  91.
      [23:08] <parrot> also the tag is magenta
  92.
      [23:08] <parrot> stupid faggot
  93.
      [23:08] <parrot> so cant anyone who isnt leading come up with strategies as well?
  94.
      [23:08] <Zidi> Chi. Perhaps lets keep this clean, so it can be posted in forums afterwards.
  95.
      [23:09] <parrot> or do leader gets to call the shot
  96.
      [23:09] <iluvatar> lol
  97.
      [23:09] <parrot> well it can be edited
  98.
      [23:09] <Zidi> Yeh but someone has to do that, so lets be nice.
  99.
      [23:09] <Squeaky> well, the basic idea is that the leader keeps structure
100.
      [23:09] <parrot> true
101.
      [23:09] <sir_ontario> outlines tasks
102.
      [23:09] <parrot> so any idea/strategy as in a SOR build gets to be confirmed by the leader
103.
      [23:10] <parrot> UNLESS ofc the leader appoints a guy to do it
104.
      [23:10] <parrot> this was rather obvious during icpg round 1
105.
      [23:10] <parrot> nolio was leading and picked up bahamut who is known to do sor and infra planning
106.
      [23:10] <parrot> that worked really well for him and they were top eco till they got raided by elro
107.
      [23:10] <parrot> as u can see this round nolio tried to do it himself and failed
108.
      [23:11] <parrot> so what do u learn from this example?
109.
      [23:11] <Squeaky> that not all Leaders are jack of all trades
110.
      [23:11] <parrot> thats 1
111.
      [23:11] <Squeaky> and may need help in some areas
112.
      [23:11] <parrot> very good
113.
      [23:11] <iluvatar> nolio is a noob?
114.
      [23:11] <parrot> and also use the right person for the job
115.
      [23:11] <parrot> u wouldnt appoint artic for this task
116.
      [23:11] <parrot> and if someone can do something better than u can
117.
      [23:11] <parrot> let him
118.
      [23:11] <parrot> give him permission
119.
      [23:12] <parrot> also no one answered more important reasons as to why to be a leader
120.
      [23:12] <parrot> a lot of ppl lead fams because no one else want to and they just get tossed the job as they happen to be the "most experienced
121.
        player"
122.
      [23:12] <Squeaky> yes X(
123.
      [23:12] <parrot> with no intention to lead at all
124.
      [23:13] <parrot> usually those fams can do ok but will never be competetive
125.
      [23:13] <parrot> zidi can u add some input =/
126.
      [23:13] * parrot sets mode: +o Zidi
127.
      [23:13] <parrot> but lets sum the why to lead part up before ppl get bored
128.
      [23:14] <iluvatar> :\ wtf was that last line?
129.
      [23:14] <parrot> 1. to have a relative successful round as you believe u have the skill to lead
130.
      [23:14] <parrot> else i wouldnt even nominate to be leader
131.
      [23:15] <parrot> 2. to encourage the fam to work as a whole, if no one really want to take up leadership role fam will usually be just SS with a
132.
        few teams working
133.
      [23:15] * parrot slaps Zidi around a bit with a large trout
134.
      [23:16] <iluvatar> he's busy sending raidfleets
135.
      [23:16] <parrot> oh ok fair enough
136.
      [23:16] <Squeaky> structure, motivation, skill
137.
      [23:16] <parrot> yep
138.
      [23:16] <parrot> good job ratboy
139.
      [23:16] * parrot sets mode: +v Squeaky
140.
      [23:16] <parrot> u get +v!
141.
      [23:16] <iluvatar> lol
142.
      [23:16] <Squeaky> woot, i r special
143.
      [23:16] <parrot> :>
144.
      [23:17] <parrot> - understanding your role (what people expect of you)
145.
      [23:17] <parrot> undertand your role
146.
      [23:17] <parrot> ok so
147.
      [23:17] <parrot> what is expected from a leader
148.
      [23:17] <parrot> say u join a fam
149.
      [23:17] <parrot> what do u expect the leader to do
150.
      [23:17] <parrot> name a few leader tasks
151.
      [23:17] <Squeaky> NAPs, Core, Teams(or fam bank)
152.
      [23:17] <Squeaky> allies
153.
      [23:17] <parrot> so relations
154.
      [23:17] <parrot> infra planning
155.
      [23:17] <parrot> team work
156.
      [23:17] <iluvatar> X( is to fast!
157.
      [23:17] <parrot> this guy is g00d
158.
      [23:17] <iluvatar> give a chance to the dumb kids
159.
      [23:18] <parrot> k ilu
160.
      [23:18] <parrot> go on
161.
      [23:18] <parrot> say something!
162.
      [23:18] <parrot> [23:17] <parrot> so relations
163.
      [23:18] <parrot> [23:17] <parrot> infra planning
164.
      [23:18] <parrot> [23:17] <parrot> team work
165.
      [23:18] <parrot> what else?
166.
      [23:18] <iluvatar> hmm, i expect him to guide the noobs
167.
      [23:18] <parrot> good point
168.
      [23:18] <parrot> encouragement/motivation
169.
      [23:19] <iluvatar> aww i was gonne say that
170.
      [23:19] <parrot> its ok ilu
171.
      [23:19] <parrot> u can has a cookie
172.
      [23:19] <parrot> u also dont expect him to just go inactive or delete right?
173.
      [23:19] <iluvatar> :>
174.
      [23:19] <parrot> thats where a lot of leaders fail
175.
      [23:19] <parrot> they give up when something goes wrong
176.
      [23:19] <parrot> instead of finding a way to fix it
177.
      [23:19] <parrot> so reliabilty
178.
      [23:19] <iluvatar> nice
179.
      [23:20] <parrot> u expect leaders to be reliable
180.
      [23:20] <parrot> so if u are gonna take on leader ship if u do have to quit at least appoint someone to take ur role
181.
      [23:20] <parrot> and dont just go inactive and let the fam die due to lack of plan
182.
      [23:20] <parrot> since as ratboy said ealier u are responsible for a lot of things
183.
      [23:20] * Squeaky kicks glue
184.
      [23:21] <parrot> so once u dissppear unless someone knows they can make all the decisions it ll take them a long time to realise u are not
185.
        coming back and finally elect a new leader
186.
      [23:21] <parrot> icpg 1 example again
187.
      [23:21] <parrot> jets
188.
      [23:21] <parrot> jets dies
189.
      [23:21] <parrot> ws took over
190.
      [23:21] <parrot> k that ll do for the 2nd point
191.
      [23:22] <parrot> - motivation
192.
      [23:22] <parrot> - organisation
193.
      [23:22] <parrot> - relations
194.
      [23:22] <parrot> motivation
195.
      [23:22] <parrot> so as a leader
196.
      [23:22] <parrot> what some good ways are to motivate ur fam memebers
197.
      [23:22] <iluvatar> forumgames
198.
      [23:22] <Squeaky> lots of posts in forum, usually when i see somebody posting lots it makes me think they are insanely active
199.
      [23:22] <iluvatar> activity
200.
      [23:22] <parrot> ok lts go back to 2002
201.
      [23:22] <parrot> when i first started as a noob
202.
      [23:23] <iluvatar> you were a noob once?
203.
      [23:23] <parrot> back then fams are not as organised as they are now
204.
      [23:23] <parrot> ppl can play ss
205.
      [23:23] <parrot> play attacker/banker teams
206.
      [23:23] <iluvatar> races between TEAMS!
207.
      [23:23] <iluvatar>
208.
      [23:23] <parrot> oh hell yeah
209.
      [23:23] <iluvatar> i win!
210.
      [23:23] <parrot> i joined an andro fam led by vindicators
211.
      [23:23] <parrot> he held weekly competitions for growth
212.
      [23:23] <parrot> so whoever grew the %nw wins planets/aid
213.
      [23:23] <parrot> it was fun
214.
      [23:23] <parrot> and probably because of him i stuck with the game
215.
      [23:24] <parrot> but then he deleted mid round due being hit by a bigger fam
216.
      [23:24] <parrot> none the less he left a good impression
217.
      [23:24] <Squeaky> give people a reason to be active
218.
      [23:24] <Squeaky> ?
219.
      [23:24] <parrot> elaborate
220.
      [23:24] <Squeaky> other than simply playing the game
221.
      [23:24] <parrot> active fun fam chat is what makes me enjoy being in a fam
222.
      [23:25] <parrot> that also covers communications
223.
      [23:25] <parrot> encourage ppl to join irc
224.
      [23:25] <parrot> but also some ppl cant idle on irc as they have jobs
225.
      [23:25] <parrot> or life
226.
      [23:25] <parrot> so to communicate them the only reliable way is ingame mail
227.
      [23:26] <James|sunstorm> then kill them off and repeat till u get some one with no life'
228.
      [23:26] <parrot> thats 1 problem facing ic right now james!
229.
      [23:26] <James|sunstorm> \o/
230.
      [23:26] <parrot> ppl take the game way to seriously
231.
      [23:26] <sir_ontario> another for communication and organisation would be helping out in intrafam problems
232.
      [23:26] <parrot> and illegally killes ppl to hope for more active randoms
233.
      [23:26] <parrot> yes a fam mediator
234.
      [23:27] <parrot> sometimes u land in a fam where 2 ppl dont get along
235.
      [23:27] <parrot> those rounds can be rather painful for all
236.
      [23:27] <James|sunstorm> yes i know thats why i said somethign .<
237.
      [23:27] <sir_ontario> i myself have had that problem many times
238.
      [23:27] <parrot> i survived with tymo in the fam
239.
      [23:27] <parrot> i am pretty good at that job
240.
      [23:27] <parrot> but this is a difficult one with being a leader
241.
      [23:28] <iluvatar>
242.
      [23:28] <parrot> eg
243.
      [23:28] <parrot> zidi and iluvatar
244.
      [23:28] <parrot> they hate eachother
245.
      [23:28] <parrot> actually everyone hate iluvatar
246.
      [23:29] <parrot> but the best way as a leader is to not take sides
247.
      [23:29] <parrot> and try to at least think from both perspective
248.
      [23:29] <parrot> been playing with tymo over the few rounds i know him quite well
249.
      [23:29] <iluvatar> <Zidi> is parrot still talking nonsense?
250.
      [23:29] <parrot> he is the hot headed bad tempered one
251.
      [23:29] <iluvatar> X(
252.
      [23:29] <parrot> :<
253.
      [23:29] <iluvatar> j/k, you doing good
254.
      [23:29] <James|sunstorm> oooo parrot burned iluvatar
255.
      [23:30] <iluvatar> james, stfugtfookthxbaiyourruiningthisforparrot
256.
      [23:30] <parrot> i know
257.
      [23:30] <parrot> no orbit to help me out and it was his idea!
258.
      [23:30] <James|sunstorm> yes im loggin and hope to see some forum posts
259.
      [23:30] <parrot> but yes been playing with tymo
260.
      [23:30] <parrot> each time he gets pissed off with a fam member
261.
      [23:30] <parrot> he has a very good reason
262.
      [23:30] <parrot> some ppl needs to be baby talked
263.
      [23:31] <parrot> learn that art and it makes u much better at dealing with those ppl
264.
      [23:31] <parrot> - relations
265.
      [23:31] <parrot> ok relations
266.
      [23:31] <parrot> 1 of the most important decision leaders have to make
267.
      [23:31] <parrot> allys naps war
268.
      [23:31] <parrot> ratman
269.
      [23:31] <parrot> how do u usually set up ally and naps early
270.
      [23:31] <Squeaky> yes
271.
      [23:31] <parrot> do u do them early
272.
      [23:31] <parrot> or wait and see
273.
      [23:31] <Squeaky> well
274.
      [23:32] <Squeaky> first list all fams that could remotely pose a problem
275.
      [23:32] <Squeaky> usually according to proximity to ur own fam
276.
      [23:32] <parrot> do u try to read them pvcs?
277.
      [23:32] <parrot> they are very helpful
278.
      [23:32] <Squeaky> always watch out for that HARDCORE fam
279.
      [23:32] <Squeaky> theres always one or 2 per round
280.
      [23:32] <parrot> haha eg anubis big gary
281.
      [23:32] <parrot> pp
282.
      [23:32] <parrot> genesis
283.
      [23:33] <Squeaky> yes them
284.
      [23:33] <parrot> those big ones eh
285.
      [23:33] <parrot> and now
286.
      [23:33] <parrot> hardcore4yearsago
287.
      [23:33] <iluvatar> i doubt you'll have to watch out for biggary anymore
288.
      [23:33] <parrot> zidi is bad though
289.
      [23:33] <parrot> normally i dont worry about them
290.
      [23:33] <parrot> so yes thats good
291.
      [23:33] <parrot> that also brings up the understanding competition part
292.
      [23:33] <parrot> its good to know ur enemies and who else are playiing
293.
      [23:33] <parrot> k allies
294.
      [23:33] <parrot> what do u look for in allies
295.
      [23:34] <parrot> position?
296.
      [23:34] <parrot> strength/line up
297.
      [23:34] * Sky has joined #guide
298.
      [23:34] <parrot> do u ally ppl close for safety or ally ppl further for position
299.
      [23:34] * Skyroshroud has quit IRC (NickServ (GHOST command used by Sky))
300.
      [23:34] <Squeaky> activbity
301.
      [23:34] * Sky is now known as Skyroshroud
302.
      [23:34] <parrot> do u also drop allies often if they dont hold up to expectations?
303.
      [23:34] <Squeaky> that one depends upon ur own fam strength, and jsut how close other fams r
304.
      [23:34] <parrot> very good
305.
      [23:34] <parrot> i like u already
306.
      [23:34] <parrot> u will be my aide!
307.
      [23:35] <iluvatar> your aids?
308.
      [23:35] <parrot> no u
309.
      [23:35] <parrot> and with naps
310.
      [23:35] <parrot> better to nap the close fams or not
311.
      [23:35] <parrot> or wait and see how situation unfolds
312.
      [23:35] <Squeaky> i prefer to wait and c
313.
      [23:35] <parrot> and if say 1 of the power fams is next to u will u actively try to nap them early?
314.
      [23:36] <parrot> by sacrifing small amount of planets?
315.
      [23:36] <Squeaky> i usually dont
316.
      [23:36] <iluvatar> yes please do so
317.
      [23:36] <parrot> and how do they usually turn out?
318.
      [23:36] <iluvatar> friendly neighbours!
319.
      [23:36] <parrot> eg if ur fam is a rank 15th fam at best
320.
      [23:36] <parrot> and pp/orb/kag is next to u
321.
      [23:36] <parrot> what do u do?
322.
      [23:36] <sir_ontario> expo nap close fams
323.
      [23:36] <Squeaky> the big fam takes a few anyway, and then offers NAP cuz ur fam just slows them down anyway
324.
      [23:36] <Zidi> Sorry. Im Back, girlfriend called .
325.
      [23:36] <parrot> haha
326.
      [23:36] <parrot> girlfriend
327.
      [23:36] <parrot> zidi
328.
      [23:36] <parrot> hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
329.
      [23:37] <iluvatar> primo
330.
      [23:37] <parrot> i dont think u have a girlfriend enjoy ur phone
331.
      [23:37] <parrot> anyway zidi
332.
      [23:37] <parrot> we are up to relations
333.
      [23:37] <Zidi> Was wishing her goodnight.
334.
      [23:37] <parrot> how do u handle naps?
335.
      [23:37] <iluvatar> zidi was also doing relations
336.
      [23:37] <James|sunstorm> wtf zidi i thought we agree u were the gurl in this relationshiop >.<
337.
      [23:37] <Squeaky> powerhouse fam side by side in expo
338.
      [23:37] <iluvatar> james, stfugtfookthxbaiyourruiningthisforparrot
339.
      [23:37] <Zidi> Naps? Hmmm. We should probably make a point
340.
      [23:38] <Zidi> of differentiating leaderships for Top 5 and leadership for below
341.
      [23:38] <parrot> yes
342.
      [23:38] <parrot> we are doing if u are a rank 15-10th fam
343.
      [23:38] <parrot> so a mid/low ranked fam
344.
      [23:38] <parrot> how would they handle nap with big fams/same rank fams
345.
      [23:38] <Squeaky> should*
346.
      [23:39] <parrot> shut up i am azn i speak no engrish
347.
      [23:39] <Squeaky> lol
348.
      [23:39] <Zidi> With the minimum core distance in the galaxies now, enaps arent always needed.
349.
      [23:40] <Squeaky> minimum core distance=distance to enemy core?
350.
      [23:40] <parrot> as a small fam do not accept enaps/48naps or any of those cancellation naps with a big power fam wo a core clause
351.
      [23:40] <parrot> u will get farmed
352.
      [23:40] <parrot> if u do take it
353.
      [23:40] <sir_ontario> i'm not saying enap to define core... i'm saying to see how other fams are
354.
      [23:40] <parrot> after a few weeks see if u can pay planet to upgrade to a pnap with a big power fam
355.
      [23:40] <parrot> it will safe ur round
356.
      [23:40] <parrot> save*
357.
      [23:41] <Zidi> Hmm. Parrot, thats not neccessarily true.
358.
      [23:41] <parrot> with the current ic its very true
359.
      [23:41] <iluvatar> hmm.
360.
      [23:41] <parrot> unless u are just starting low but have potential to be bigger
361.
      [23:41] <parrot> i am talking about a rag tag random fam
362.
      [23:41] <Squeaky> i personally dont like any type of NAP where just one fam gets a core clause
363.
      [23:41] <parrot> whos trying hard
364.
      [23:41] <parrot> not a fam that may start low but at eor become top 5
365.
      [23:42] <Zidi> Well. Id say a 48 hour core clause nap is fine. But as long s the samll fam has a 25 to 30 core min. Its fine if you give the
366.
        large fam 55-60
367.
      [23:42] <parrot> yees
368.
      [23:42] <Zidi> Realistically you wouldnt get even 30 without the nap
369.
      [23:42] <Zidi> So a 30 to 60 ratio is fairly safe.
370.
      [23:42] <parrot> very true let the big fam get an advantage of napping u
371.
      [23:42] <Squeaky> cause being the small fam, you have no other choice?
372.
      [23:42] <parrot> if u can convince them napping u is beneficial to them and they are smart they will take the deal
373.
      [23:43] <parrot> well if u want to survive u dont
374.
      [23:43] * sir_ontario has quit IRC (EOF from client)
375.
      [23:43] <Zidi> Squeaky. Its not the only choice.
376.
      [23:43] <parrot> but if u just want to mess around and have fun its ok
377.
      [23:43] <Zidi> The other choices are....more risky
378.
      [23:43] <Squeaky> well, yes no NAP and ping pong around:P
379.
      [23:43] <Zidi> Often larger fams wont defend there bankers properly throughout ephase.
380.
      [23:43] * sir_ontario has joined #guide
381.
      [23:43] <parrot> reminds me of last cap zidi
382.
      [23:43] <James|sunstorm> is there going to be partws about motivating ur family?
383.
      [23:43] <Zidi> If your fam is active enough, with enough decent attckers
384.
      [23:43] <parrot> drop that ranked 2 fam to 20th week 2
385.
      [23:43] <sir_ontario> GD rain... making me lose my internet connection
386.
      [23:43] <parrot> while being 15th
387.
      [23:44] <Zidi> Well, i was going to get to that, because that in my opinion that is most important thing.
388.
      [23:44] <James|sunstorm> talking to me zidi?
389.
      [23:45] <Zidi> The real Key as leader in my opinion is knowing the capabilities of each family member, and not expecting more of them then they
390.
        can give. IF you have someone who logs in twice a day, it doesnt mean he isnt active, or not a valued member. Alot of people will also ignore
391.
        them if they dont come to irc or message regulary.
392.
      [23:45] <parrot> omg
393.
      [23:45] <parrot> omg
394.
      [23:45] <parrot> zidi! very good lots of ppl dont get it
395.
      [23:45] <James|sunstorm> aye agree!
396.
      [23:45] <parrot> rat boy knows
397.
      [23:45] <Squeaky> i do
398.
      [23:45] <parrot> thats how i work with my icpg fam
399.
      [23:45] <parrot>
400.
      [23:45] <James|sunstorm> ok but im gone again still loggin!
401.
      [23:45] <parrot> i said something similar
402.
      [23:46] <James|sunstorm> i ahte work -_-
403.
      [23:46] <Zidi> So it its very important as leader to make an effort to talk to everyone in the fam. Get to know them, where they are from, when
404.
        they can login, and to know for instance, if someone logs in not so foten, that u just leave them the cash for when they get on to build.
405.
      [23:46] <Squeaky> 'each players makes up a team, and THE team wants that tag at the end of the day'
406.
      [23:46] <Zidi> Its also important to try include everyone.
407.
      [23:46] <parrot> oh yeah speaking of that
408.
      [23:46] <parrot> 1 of my motivational thing for my icpg fam is
409.
      [23:46] <parrot> lemme dig up my post
410.
      [23:47] <parrot> omg where is it
411.
      [23:47] <parrot> i bet that english bum lex deleted it
412.
      [23:47] <Zidi> While it might not be perfect, i let my bankers choose there own strat for the most part. If i dont agree with how they do it,
413.
        ill try to show them why its not effective, rather then just telling them to change it. Let them make the decision to change it, not force
414.
        them.
415.
      [23:48] <parrot> yep i let the bankers chose how they bank as long as they dont go pop!
416.
      [23:48] <Squeaky> that makes it more appealing to them?
417.
      [23:48] <parrot> i just list all the flaws of pop banking in icpg and they agree!
418.
      [23:49] <parrot> but i give them the freedom of how they play their role
419.
      [23:49] <parrot> same as attackers
420.
      [23:49] <parrot> i encourage my attackers to take initiative
421.
      [23:49] <parrot> i tell them if they need fleet for a task ask me and they will get what they want unless i have a good reason they cant
422.
      [23:50] <parrot> instead of attackers just listening to orders all day and cant do anything wo the leader telling them to
423.
      [23:50] <Zidi> Anways, back to the relations thing.
424.
      [23:50] <parrot> k boss
425.
      [23:50] <Zidi> Core naps will certainly help, as it allows you to grow, if they expire, or cancel. This is where things become tough.
426.
      [23:51] <Zidi> You can a) Look to pay extra planets for pnap. As parrot said, this will work because quite often fams are just looking for quick
427.
        free planets. By doing this early it allows you to minimise fleet and infra damage.
428.
      [23:51] <Zidi> Option b) is of course to fight. In this sceanario you need to look for a way to make it not worth there while.
429.
      [23:52] <Zidi> Either through pop killing, nuking, or banker raids.
430.
      [23:52] <parrot> this is where 1 of ur skill "knowing ur fam members" comes into play
431.
      [23:52] <Zidi> In other words, have fun
432.
      [23:52] <parrot> if u know ur fam have a capable attacker u may go with the banker raiding route
433.
      [23:52] <parrot> as less chance of them screwing up
434.
      [23:53] <parrot> if not then the opping method can be more appealing, but ops is usually frowned upon and a big fam that gets threatened with
435.
        nukes will most likely still kill u
436.
      [23:53] <Zidi> Dont threaten. Just Do.
437.
      [23:53] <parrot> in otherword unless ur fam have a few decent players its always safer to go with the play nice and offer planets route
438.
      [23:53] <Zidi> But make sure you do it properly.
439.
      [23:53] <parrot> ok
440.
      [23:53] <parrot> if u just do
441.
      [23:53] <parrot> u need to know ur enemey
442.
      [23:54] <parrot> it will work on some aka cartel
443.
      [23:54] <parrot> but wont on others
444.
      [23:54] <parrot> aka pp
445.
      [23:54] <Zidi> Inflintrates are your friend.
446.
      [23:54] <parrot> so u need to know who u doing it on
447.
      [23:54] <Zidi> Always remember that.
448.
      [23:54] <parrot> yes but also the other leaders personality
449.
      [23:54] <parrot> so u know when this scare tactic will work
450.
      [23:54] <parrot> we shouldnt discuss how to do naps in a big fam yet
451.
      [23:55] <parrot> since u are decent if u can make a big fam
452.
      [23:55] <Zidi> Thats not actually true Parrot.
453.
      [23:55] <Zidi>
454.
      [23:55] <parrot> but as a general rule of thumb
455.
      [23:55] * Zidi points to my capri fam
456.
      [23:55] <parrot> in a big fam
457.
      [23:55] <parrot> NAP when its beneficial
458.
      [23:56] <parrot> beneficial can be a variety of reasons, growth/position/1 less target to worry about while u fight another etc
459.
      [23:56] <Squeaky> for planets, to continue NW growth, to stop attacks, to gain more secure area(not planets per sya)
460.
      [23:56] <Squeaky> ?
461.
      [23:56] <parrot> yeah and all that
462.
      [23:56] <parrot> if u think its beneficial to nap it usually is
463.
      [23:56] <parrot> also in a big fam there are 2 ways to play
464.
      [23:56] <parrot> 1 to play to win
465.
      [23:56] <parrot> we ll say size
466.
      [23:56] <parrot> either win or nothing
467.
      [23:57] <Zidi> Oh. I suppose there is the one other option. Thats the cancelling on the big fam yourself.
468.
      [23:57] * Squeaky laughs
469.
      [23:57] <parrot> and how do u win this zidi
470.
      [23:57] <Zidi> Depends on the nap.
471.
      [23:58] <Zidi> If there are instants between you, with there bankers.
472.
      [23:58] <Zidi> Also depends on how behind your infra is.
473.
      [23:58] <parrot> k say 12th vs 3rd
474.
      [23:58] <Zidi> But often, for instance after they jump a pop banker. They REALLY, use up all savings.
475.
      [23:58] <iluvatar> you die
476.
      [23:58] <Zidi> Thats pretty much the only chance .
477.
      [23:58] <parrot> i say
478.
      [23:58] <Zidi> but if you strong suspect
479.
      [23:58] <Zidi> they will cancel on you soon.
480.
      [23:59] <Zidi> Better to be prepared, then not.
481.
      [23:59] <iluvatar> they dont jump popbankers untill most stuff is portalled. So after ephase
482.
      [23:59] <Zidi> Also, depends on leader personality.
483.
      [23:59] <iluvatar> then they make so much, they catch up easy in 48h cancel time
484.
      [23:59] <Zidi> Some leaders you can know will attack you, some you can know they wont.
485.
      [23:59] <parrot> yep
486.
      [23:59] <Zidi> Yes iluvatar, they catch up.
487.
      [23:59] <Zidi> But its different from being cancelling on when they have 1-2 days savings
488.
      [23:59] <Zidi> and you none.
489.
      [23:59] <parrot> knowing ur competition is important
490.
      [23:59] <Zidi>
491.
      [23:59] <iluvatar> true
492.
      [23:59] <iluvatar> butin the end, you die
493.
      [00:00] <Zidi> Perhaps nowadays
494.
      [00:00] <parrot> yes usually ends in ur death
495.
      [00:00] <Zidi> didnt use to be like that =/
496.
      [00:00] <parrot> unless u have whiteshadow
497.
      [00:00] <parrot> who will ask u for 150 planets
498.
      [00:00] <parrot> its usually better to pay
499.
      [00:00] <parrot>
500.
      [00:00] <parrot> but lets not be too grim
501.
      [00:00] <iluvatar> these are the leaders of tomorrow, not of last millenium!!
502.
      [00:00] <Squeaky> that was the biggest thing when i first led a fam, i didnt barely know anybody, so i had real trouble deciding what to do
503.
      [00:00] <parrot> so key is dont make 48 or enap with powr fams
504.
      [00:00] <parrot> get to a perm EARLY
505.
      [00:00] <parrot> before portals
506.
      [00:00] <parrot> where u can do lots of damage
507.
      [00:00] <parrot> and pay less planets
508.
      [00:01] <iluvatar> once portals are in, you cant hurt them properly
509.
      [00:01] <parrot> yes gotta get them early
510.
      [00:01] <parrot> so either pnap or no nap with power fams
511.
      [00:01] <iluvatar> like how were hovering parrots bankers before his portals finish
512.
      [00:01] <parrot> :<
513.
      [00:01] <Zidi> So, pnap parrot?
514.
      [00:01] <Zidi>
515.
      [00:02] <iluvatar> for 150 offcourse
516.
      [00:02] <iluvatar> the usual fee
517.
      [00:02] <parrot> yes 150 planets for u
518.
      [00:02] <parrot> i mean
519.
      [00:02] <parrot> for me
520.
      [00:02] <iluvatar> <&parrot> from me
521.
      [00:04] * James|sunstorm has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
522.
      [00:04] <parrot> k so the general idea is to not let a big fam set up around u with a crappy nap and kill u later
523.
      [00:04] <parrot> simple
524.
      [00:04] <parrot> now lets move on
525.
      [00:05] <parrot> - goal acheivement
526.
      [00:05] <parrot> now
527.
      [00:05] <parrot> thats different depending on what ur fam is
528.
      [00:05] <Squeaky> to win, or to have fun?
529.
      [00:05] <parrot> as i said for some big fam its EOR size win
530.
      [00:05] <parrot> for some its just a top 5 finish
531.
      [00:05] <parrot> and for others top 10
532.
      [00:06] <parrot> and yes have fun
533.
      [00:06] <parrot> have fun is interesting
534.
      [00:06] <parrot> cause the fam as a whole need to have fun
535.
      [00:06] <parrot> so they need to share similiar goals
536.
      [00:06] * parrot slaps Zidi around a bit with a large trout
537.
      [00:07] <parrot> dont tell me u are calling another gc
538.
      [00:07] <parrot> gf
539.
      [00:07] <Zidi> no
540.
      [00:07] <Zidi> Im thinking
541.
      [00:07] <parrot> k
542.
      [00:07] <Zidi> clicking attack
543.
      [00:07] <Zidi> you know
544.
      [00:07] <Zidi>
545.
      [00:07] <parrot> pfft
546.
      [00:07] <Squeaky> similiar goals - which fam to war?
547.
      [00:07] * Zidi points lex
548.
      [00:07] <Zidi>
549.
      [00:07] * iluvatar has quit IRC (Quit: )
550.
      [00:08] <parrot> stupid ilu
551.
      [00:08] <Zidi> Goals are difficult.
552.
      [00:09] <Zidi> When in a low fam, it generally is just the top 10.
553.
      [00:09] <parrot> yes and how should that be achieved?
554.
      [00:09] <parrot> 1. not get farmed
555.
      [00:09] <parrot> and generally u have a good chance of top 10
556.
      [00:09] <Squeaky> that would mean, basicly plan ahead for where ur fam is moving?
557.
      [00:10] <parrot> well also to stop which fams from moving towards u
558.
      [00:10] <Zidi> Well. For me personally. I far more enjoy leading a small fam from say, rank 23, to rank 4 by the end.
559.
      [00:10] <parrot> say u are lucky and in a area with no power fam around u
560.
      [00:10] <Zidi> Then by being 1st, and staying 1st.
561.
      [00:10] <parrot> idd zidi
562.
      [00:10] <parrot> except i am not as skilled the best i can do is rank 10
563.
      [00:11] <parrot> well lets use icpg as example
564.
      [00:11] <parrot> i know my fam wont win
565.
      [00:11] <parrot> we are aiming for top 10
566.
      [00:11] <Squeaky> so basicly, be a VIP to get yamas and u can see which fams r moving towards u or not?
567.
      [00:11] <Zidi> lol
568.
      [00:11] <parrot> so i see my biggest threat as zidi and ws
569.
      [00:11] <parrot> so i keep them away!
570.
      [00:11] <parrot> and i ll be sure to get a top 10 finish
571.
      [00:11] <Zidi> Thats not really needed.
572.
      [00:12] <Zidi> This is the first round ive really ever used a vip.
573.
      [00:12] <Zidi> Generally speaking, youll have yourself a decent size core.
574.
      [00:12] <Squeaky> so how did u figure out which fams were getting closer to u or not?
575.
      [00:12] <Zidi> and just check them each day
576.
      [00:12] <parrot> for top 10 finish
577.
      [00:12] <parrot> yep
578.
      [00:12] <parrot> just click every system
579.
      [00:12] <parrot> everytime u log on
580.
      [00:12] <Zidi> basically get firefox, and get the map gen
581.
      [00:12] <parrot> thats for top 10 finish
582.
      [00:12] <Zidi> if you put the cursor over a system, and hit spacebar itll bring it up in a new a window
583.
      [00:12] <parrot> if u are aming for higher u d need a bigger core and the clicking just wont do
584.
      [00:12] <Squeaky> ok, so check ur core, thats normal, i do that all the time...BUT wut about if a fam is like 2 ticks outside ur core...?
585.
      [00:13] <Squeaky> dont u have to keep them away to?
586.
      [00:13] <Zidi> BUt then your nicreasing ur core size arent you?
587.
      [00:13] <parrot> :>
588.
      [00:13] <Squeaky> isnt that wut u want?
589.
      [00:13] <Zidi> precisely.
590.
      [00:13] <Zidi>
591.
      [00:13] <Squeaky> so how would one go about...finding these systems?
592.
      [00:13] <Squeaky> withint a VIP
593.
      [00:14] <Squeaky> and without going and clicking in evry one
594.
      [00:14] <Zidi> Normally youll have a pretty good idea
595.
      [00:14] <Zidi> of which families
596.
      [00:14] <Zidi> are near you
597.
      [00:14] <parrot> vip help big time
598.
      [00:14] <Zidi> And itll be pretty standard to keep infils, and check planet lists
599.
      [00:14] <Zidi> every so often.
600.
      [00:14] <parrot> if a big fam not close to u try to set up near u
601.
      [00:14] <parrot> do all u can to kick them out
602.
      [00:14] <parrot> usually they wont come back again
603.
      [00:14] <parrot> dont let them setup their cluster
604.
      [00:14] <parrot> cause u wont be able to remove them by then
605.
      [00:15] * Atherion has quit IRC (Quit: OCRANA.D-Link-IRC by RaZaMb is powered by ATI GRAPHICS