Topic: Of Censorship

This is an actual political issue around the world, not a complaint specifically. Since the issue seems relevent at hand, it's time to talk about it to try to understand it.

Now to understand censorship you must first know why it happens. Usually censorship occurs because someone is 'uncomfortable' with what is being said. This could be a member of society or a leader in a nation. This uncomfortable could be with an opinion, a religion, a fair belief, a way to raise children, facts about a government, or anything in general.


That first step, the uncomfortable, is the start of censorship.


Censorship through history has been rather damaging. For instance, a group once sought all complaints against it squelched, as well as anything contradicting what they said. They thought they were just in their efforts. They were known as the Roman Church. Untold damage was done by their eliminations of science and history teachings, of books that questioned certain changes they enacted, etc.

One should have wished this glaring example would have made censorship seem a bad idea.

However censorship still has strong sway amongst people. There is after all a morality issue in  modern society which makes some area's taboo. For instance we do not place porn in libraries.

Censorship is across all religious, ethical, political, and moral lines. Being a Democrat, a Liberal, a Republican, a Conservative, or a Dictator (insert other political belief structure here) does not mean your group does not try to censor.

For instance in many schools there is a push to never have any religious books what-so-ever. To many this is a form of censorship as it is a book that teaches (usually) about ethics, history (in a narrow view), of early laws, and more. One need not take a religion by reading of a religion after all, therefore this is in purest form, censorship.

The same is true about preventing guides to being 'gay', aka Homosexual, and Bi, aka Bi-Sexual, in libraries (so long as they are not smut books). Many groups oppose these books existing at all, and yet they wish to have the Bible in a school and claim censorship.

Censorship can take many forms. In China there is a place where you can complain about anything, and not get reprimanded about it. However the structure for such complaints is rigid, and bulky in requirements. Few if any truly get to put their issues to text in a manner where others may, if they wish to do so, can read about these complaints in a manner befitting their choice.

China has indeed taken censorship to the highest known levels ever. Complaints about their government (excluding the one legal manner) are not allowed at all. They have even gone so far as to put blocks on the internet, and requirements on all ISP's and Search Engines operating in China. These blocks prevent certain words from being searched upon, and getting results.

Further they ban certain topics all together (excluding the one legal manner ofc) in their effort to squelch any chance of a voice of opposition.


For their efforts most of the world brands them as a censorship country.


China is not the only nation practicing censorship. N. Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Sudan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Syria top the list of nations that censor books and writings.



Some censoring fits within certain moral guides; for instance forums preventing advertisers from posting. This function is to keep the forums readable. This has been generally accepted (except by some of the advertisers) as a just form of censorship. But I leap ahead.


Certain legal protections, such as the American 1st Amendment, seek to protect Freedom of Speech, including in text formats. The Magna Carta is seen also a key paper in this regards.

Some counter protections do exist, such as the right of private property. I am not allowed to write what I want in a bathroom stall and expect it to be allowed by the owner of the stall, let alone expect it to remain there untampered with for all to read!!!


Censorship can be via a wide variety of means, including the preventing of certain words, such as the FCC does in television, to limitations in topics, to a forum moderator closing topics he objects to.


In Western Society, within reason, Censorship is still seen as a taboo thing to do. Preventing a persons freedom of speech still resonates, and claims of such usually do bring an uprising, if indeed the facts check, against the source of the censorship.


Censorship usually fails to some degree fortunately. Usually there are holes, flaws in the system, or other means to let information flow.

For instance in China the effort to stop certain topics from being read about can be circumvented with assistance from outsiders. In the United States a group called Anonymous stopped censorship by court from the Church of Scientology. I still remember shouting with them "Information is Free!".


The stakes are high. Censorship is done sometimes in the name of good, but in fact does great and substantial harm. Upon times one group has supported censorship of others, only to cry foul when it happened to them, and finding no recourse.




I post this of course in part because I am being censored. The means is pretty diabolical and is said to be done in the name of justice.

Of course there are a great many people who hate me and wish only harm to me and my ideals. They will want this censorship.


However I ask, if I am limited to one thread, for 100 topics, how will my voice be heard? Is "Information Free" after all, or is the price to not question Obama and his policies (as would seem to be the case here)?


I would note that when horrific things were said about Bush, by leftists around the world, they were not told 'do not say things like that', but were allowed to say what they said, in peace. Now we are being told by those very same people to not say anything like that when we try to talk ourselves.



There is a saying. "I would die protecting their right to say what they want". As a Veteran this was a real and serious chance in my future. That it did not happen to me is of course irrelevant. Men and Women have died for this, to them, sacred trust.



"TO ALL FREE MEN OF OUR KINGDOM we have also granted, for us and our heirs for ever, all the liberties written out below, to have and to keep for them and their heirs, of us and our heirs" -- The Magna Carta

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Of Censorship

So...what's this thread about?  Are you just giving us your view on censorship, or are you trying to start a debate on it?

"Oh Kent, anyone can make up statistics to support their point of view.  92% of people know that"

Homer Simpson

Re: Of Censorship

Spam.

Re: Of Censorship

Feel free to talk about it Vampman, it is a world issue.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Of Censorship

I think we call agree censorship is bad.

[/thread]

Re: Of Censorship

OK, I'll get the ball rolling.

Censorship can be used for good but in quite a few cases it has been used by governments to keep it's people in the dark about events in the wider world.  Named examples would be the former U.S.S.R (and if the current Russian government did this too, I wouldn't be surprised), the "People's Republic" of China, which abuses censorship as a device of oppression and control.

The most recent abuse of censorship that I have noticed has been the Iranian government's blanket banning of access to Facebook, the relevant link follows.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8065578.stm

Overall, while I think censorship is widely used in most civilised countries today with good intentions (the illegal status of pornography or extremist literature), it is generally a tool of suppression and should be stopped altogether.  The overuse of censorship can result in ignorance in the general population (one example from Britain is the information on MP's expense claims which the House of Commons kept trying to block from coming out.  It could also result in political correctness; in other words, the attempt by the British government to prevent the offending of minority ethnic and religious groups such as Pakistanis, Blacks and, for an example of the latter group, Muslims.  I'll give you an example in reference to Blacks:  The nursery rhyme "Baa Baa Black Sheep" has had the word "Black" changed to "White" or (in a twist that shows the complete idiocy of political correctness) "Wooly".  The rhyme now consist of something like this:

Baa Baa Wooly Sheep,
Have you any wool?
Yes sir, yes sir,
Three bags full.

That's why I think censorship is bad.

"Oh Kent, anyone can make up statistics to support their point of view.  92% of people know that"

Homer Simpson

Re: Of Censorship

""TO ALL FREE MEN OF OUR KINGDOM we have also granted, for us and our heirs for ever, all the liberties written out below, to have and to keep for them and their heirs, of us and our heirs" -- The Magna Carta

Have you any idea what the Magna Carta was about? It wasn't about free speech, I can tell you that. It was about more rights to noblemen, and it has nothing to do with the right of free speech for the population (look at the catholics a few centuries later)...

And once again, we discussed about your topic issues before and still I don't think I'm in the wrong. Using a valid topic like that to conclude with an attack on my person is just juvenile...

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Of Censorship

i think that the main issue here is that Flint just likes the sound of his own spam. Now that his obama bashing has been halted, he needs to make a few more pointless threads just to make them

<@Nolio> Ilu was the man back in the day,he even made monkeywrench and arganon look good for half a round =p
<@iluvatar> it is my grandest achievement
<@Nolio> *half a round  =p
<@iluvatar> still
* Final_Doom is now known as Thanks_Iluvatar

Re: Of Censorship

free speech is good, but some control is better. Nazi/facist propaganda must be eliminated around the world!

Re: Of Censorship

You're right. Let's not fight it with education, let's fight it with laws which will be corrupt and abused from the start! (Notice that such laws are inherently fascist by nature.)

I know. I just blew your mind. You're welcome. smile

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Of Censorship

/me applauds BG

"So, it's defeat for you, is it? Someday I must meet a similar fate..."

Re: Of Censorship

@BG
education? remember Thimothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma bomber? that guy was a neo-nazi and he is only one of hundreds of thousands in the US. his education didn't stop him for a second. Nazi ideology was and is pure evil and must be stopped from spreading, even by laws. those who are infected with Nazi ideology won't be helped by your education. these Nazis are grown up, they won't go back to school to learn that they are wrong. Only after hate crimes were committed the US-law starts to work, but than it is too late.

Re: Of Censorship

I actually support censorship. Some things, like how powerful the elite are, that they sell DDT to Brazil, how cattle are treated, or the atrocities committed in the name of power, should not be released to the public. Things like that trigger people's empathy, and the resulting outcome is just bad. We don't need any more moronic campaigns against the agriculture companies that pack chickens tightly together to increase storage capacity.

Re: Of Censorship

Indeed not, that would only concern the people! All the people need to know is what the Ministry of Truth aka Minitrue tells them!

God: Behold ye angels, I have created the ass.. Throughout the ages to come men and women shall grab hold of these and shout my name...

Re: Of Censorship

Now for a not so much of a year of an update.


The hands of censorship have some clear, but some not so clear.


Heavy handedness on one side, and laxity on another, has caused this forum to die.


Yes I have said the word... die.


Fairness must be to all, equality must be to all, or freedom, much like this forum, dies.

Unfair forum modding has resulted in a different form of censorship.

In one week I created more debate, more conversations, than happened in months and months.



The censorship here was one more insidious than one might think. Where debate flourished, but some lefties had their ideals hurt, they took and tried to drive off the competition. Where accusations happened against one lefty, the others would join in accepting the behavior.

So what was the result?

Grand debates, increased knowledge, world problems solved?


No...


It was silence...


Oh I know Wild Flower Soul, the one who made the events that made this post, along with Primo, they both will celebrate my leaving. Instead they should cry. When Justinian leaves, and when Chris and Zarf leave... what more will be said? What use will this forum be good for, except memories?




And then we have another issue with censorship. Personal feelings. Power corrupts, but infinite power is nifty. There have been some mods who were known to be neutral and fair to all. Sadly most have had strong emotions against or for certain people. And so harm was done if a person was unpopular. Who cares after all... none of us care.

You should care... IC is dead due to favoritism, due to cronyism, due to run away emotions.



This game had 15,000 players. It was a serious contender for several games which I will not name (for it is against forum rules to advertise other games), which now are in the hundreds of thousands.

What was the difference? This game had it all.


Two things... one which could be gotten around, an absent Administrator (Which the mods tried hard to cover for)... and by mods and their prejudices.




Who else got Primo to post, who else got Wild Flower to post, who else got the spammers and flamers and the trolls to post?

Black_Wing, JA, and myself. Those people never posted when we were not here, there was no ongoing conversations... it was their way, and the silence was deafening.



This post is not my last, but it indicates it is soon to my last. I may still reply to some posts, but I am winding down.

When I am done, I will make an empire, send my messages, and then disappear until elected (then to find two people)



But consider this, this is a lesson, one more deep than some might get by just reading this post alone. All words here in the original post, and this post, were thought out in great detail, with great thought. Try to discern it all.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Of Censorship

Ooooooooor people realised arguing on the internet, especially about politics, is pointless?