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> ..Nemeara.. wrote:
> 'essential needs' mean whatever it means to you
that s tricky; some would say clean water, others would say prada sunglasses, the latest
True, but who are we to dictate what essential needs are for everybody? But, perhaps, there could be an international agreement as to what essential needs are. Maybe people with prada sunglasses can work that out?
The way things are right now suits me just fine.
>>No its saying everyone should be able to grow their own fruits. It says nothing
about the taking of other peoples things. <<
So it's saying that someone without property to grow their own fruits should be given the property of another in order to do so? But that's saying nothing about taking other people's things?
>>Honestly assumptions are getting you no where...<<
Just like your incoherence. Stop taking so many drugs.
Kemp
For the last time, I'm not condoning communism, alright. Stop accusing me of saying something I'm not. Stop assuming what my ideas are. Stop labeling me. It's insulting.
Stealing from the rich and giving to the poor is alright in a medieval fairytale like Robin Hood, but not in the real world.
That's not what I'm condoning.
Got it?
Are we clear?
Let me rephrase again:
a) Who thinks we should re-evaluate, repair, change, or replace our society's system, because, due to new technology or other factors, it is possible for there to be more opportunity for people to be able to PROVIDE FOR THEIR OWN essential needs?
Or
b) Who thinks we should not re-evaluate, repair, change, or replace our society's system, because and all the current frustrations humans face in PROVIDING FOR THEIR OWN essential needs is being adequately addressed by our current system?
Xeno is trying to get the desired response to the "choices" to support his own world view...despite the fact that those views are utterly flawed and don't take into account the realities of our society.
note: one huge flaw in your argument is the assumption that societies do not change. That is a misconception. Societies evolve and grow and change over time. They never stay the same. There is no need to "change" a society that is itself changing. -.-
Furthermore if society is meeting your needs then there is no motivation to change it. It's easier that way...the path of least resistance.
Xeno, your statements are highly vague.
"Stealing from the rich and giving to the poor is alright in a medieval fairytale like Robin Hood, but not in the real world.
That's not what I'm condoning."
if thats not what you're condoning. and you want the system to provide for disabled people unable to get their own essential needs, then how do you propose on giving it to them? because the only obvious way to give people things they dont have is to take it from someone else.
I think it's perfectly right if I have the most might, thanks to my followers or personal qualities, to take from you for my own benefit.
Let me rephrase again:
a) Who thinks we should re-evaluate, repair, change, or replace our society's system, because, due to new technology or other factors, it is possible for there to be more opportunity for people to be able to PROVIDE FOR THEIR OWN essential needs?
Or
b) Who thinks we should not re-evaluate, repair, change, or replace our society's system, because and all the current frustrations humans face in PROVIDING FOR THEIR OWN essential needs is being adequately addressed by our current system?
neither, many people, including myself acknowledge that there is room for imprvoment. so we support change, just not the type of change you describe is the first option.
I was merely pointing out a contradiction in your own words, xeno syndicated. You can knock down all the straw men you want, it doesn't get you anywhere.
>> because, due to new technology or other factors, it is possible for there to be more opportunity for people to be able to PROVIDE FOR THEIR OWN essential needs?<<\
What are you talking about? Robots to help people build their own farms, produce their food, be friends with them? Honestly what conceivably can you actually be referring to? Are people being kept from providing for their own basic needs by anything else but taxation and cost of living? What kind of technology or "other factors" can reduce taxation or cost of living?
>>This doesn't mean giving them prada, this means allowing them to work their arse
off to get basic needs.<<
So he's talking about... freeing prisoners? Who else is being prevented from working hard to fulfil their basic needs and every want on top of that?
We must fight against minimum wage and poverty! I support an armed populace to fight against the evil poverty--others support stronger police states--who is right? What will work? Will the terrorist bombings of poverty continue? Perhaps history will inform future generations of the truth!
I do it with style and class! Unlike SOME people in here. Feel free to respond in an UNclassy manner to show how classy you are! HA! 
"But instead "ALLOW ANYONE TO EARN"'
how does someone who is paralized, cant speak, hear, or see, or talk earn anything?
@ Skoe
Thanks for trying to keep Kemp on topic. Tough job.
@Everyone
The issue is change, as avo pointed out. How it is to change, however, is also the issue. Is the change we are experiencing in our global society (or societeies - however you want to look at it) changing due to random forces out of human control? Or do we as citizens of this global society have some sort of influence over how it is changing? Or are we entirely helpless, subject to the decisions of a global elite? Who or what is responsible for the changes, or the lack thereof?
"Where does this come into it?!?!"
isnt it obvious? how do we get someone who is paralized, cant speak, hear, see, or talk to do what you and xeno want EVERYONE in the world to be able to do, EARN all their essential needs.
"No, i mean where did this come into the original posts statement??"
i dont understand what you mean by "come into the original posts statement"? you said everyone, does someone who is paralyzed, cant speak, hear, see, or talk still count as a person? you said the system needs to let EVERYONE EARN their essential needs, so how do you expect the system to let a paralyzed person do that? or a drug addict? do it matrix style and use their body heat to make electricity against their will?
> avogadro wrote:
> "No, i mean where did this come into the original posts statement??"
i dont understand what you mean by "come into the original posts statement"? you said everyone, does someone who is paralyzed, cant speak, hear, see, or talk still count as a person? you said the system needs to let EVERYONE EARN their essential needs, so how do you expect the system to let a paralyzed person do that? or a drug addict? do it matrix style and use their body heat to make electricity against their will?
Perhaps we can focus on having our system provide for the opportunity for potentially productive humans.
Why do you focus on the population of deaf-mute and blind paraplegics, which account for 0.000001 percent of the population?
Besides, most of the deaf-mute, blind paraplegics are probably war vets, and with our system providing the opportunity for people to satisfy their essential needs, we'd probably have fewer wars and thus fewer paraplegics.
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