Here are the issues that you must prove for OGLU's to have any merit in the 21st-22nd centuries:

Prove that OGLU power generation is more efficient and costs less in terms of maintenance, materials costs and is more reliable than fusion power.
Prove that OGLU construction AND distribution costs are less than using native building techniques in rural environments supplemented using modern components.

Arguments about the Grid vs your inefficient microwave distribution system is a mute point, your idea is less efficient than CURRENT technology. When compared to electrical grids of the future it becomes a joke (high temperature superconductors will pwn you).

I will give Xeno ONE bone to chew on. There is ONE energy source out there that CAN lead to true OGL living on a civilization scale. Course even if it is developed it probably won't replace our infrastructure here on Earth as it will be too well established. But in remote regions as well as on other worlds it could take hold. Now Xeno, what technology is it?

Nope.

Nope, you need a power source that can single handily meet the energy needs of an entire civilization on a planetary scale that is massively scalable from running things as small as your cellphone and things as large as large industrial complexes. It needs to be safe, efficient, easy to maintain, where fuel is plentiful and can be used in almost any environment.

*sighs*

Again, no. Your thinking way to small, and way too complex. There's actually 2 technologies that can do the trick but the second one is merely a theory ATM while the other is going through scientific experimentation right now thus is more realistic, we should have some kind of working prototype by the mid-21st century to show it's potential.

Lizon, you still haven't provided an argument as to why biodigesters don't work.  You just said "no."

Okay, so I'm a "right" answer... you just believe there is a "more right" answer... fair enough... once we hear it. 

Here's another kind of low-bandwidth ambient energy:

Static field converter - A device for the conversion of a static magnetic field into electrical energy

(We can get electricity from the Earth's magnetic field).

Xeno you really need to go take some physics classes or learn something about engineering. Of course those lanterns work right there. Look at the range! After so far the energy wavelengths stretch out and dissipates and it becomes harmless. This is the problem with microwave transmission technology. It works on both ends. First to transmit the energy into orbit it needs to be collected into a central source. The reason you can't simply transmit it straight into orbit is that the signal won't make it out of the atmosphere into orbit. It won't have enough power to break through. Next to collect the power you can't simply"radiate" it to the collector. A wired system needs to be used. This is because radiated energy transmission is very very inefficient due to energy loss to the atmosphere. You also can't daisy chain the homes together using a radiated system due to energy loss with every subsequent transmission along the chain. You need to use a normal system to collect.

Next you have to consider sending the energy back down. The transmission down needs to be strong enough to reach the surface and strong enough to transmit down enough energy to be useful for a large area. This means the transmission needs to be very powerful, lethally powerful to humans into a central collector which in turn will have to dial down the energy to useful levels to be sent out to the homes. Hence my comment about how you can't be so much as 1 silly millimeter off target else you'll kill everything over a 100 mile radius. ^.^

Clearly you didn't think this idea through. The little lamps are nifty, but they aren't to be interpreted as a new means of power transmission. Furthermore advancements in high temperature super conductors will eventually lead to even more efficient grids in the future (you do know what a superconductor is right?).

----

And the technology I was thinking of was cold fusion. This technology has begun to get a second look by labs all over the world and is now being researched extensively by the DoD as a new energy source. Recent experiments involve using plates of super-refined palladium inserted into water and a low voltage current to induce fusion. Tests have been promising but inconsistent. It does seem that excess heat is being radiated out in amounts greater than the energy going in. It will take us decades to really understand what is going on, and I doubt we'll be seeing anything usable until the turn of the 22nd century. But it's application can be staggering. You can plug a power cell into a home and run it for years without ever needing to be replaced. Same for cars, factories, cellphones, laptops, and everything in between. The fact that we are actively researching this technology and have some successful experimentation in regards to it puts it far ahead of the other technology I was thinking of. Vacuum energy (Quantum energy) power cells. These cells involve drawing out energy from the vacuum if space/time itself. This is currently in the theoretical stage and no experimentation in terms of seeing if it is possible has even been attempted.

"The DOD and their cronies can go ahead and develop cold fusion, and they can go ahead and use it themselves, too.  They better not ask me for any money to develop it, though.  I won't use their energy.  I'll use ambient free-energy."

That's a very hypocritical argument. I don't care who develops the technology, and I don't let personal opinions blind myself to the potential and groundbreaking benefits from it. If your so against using any technology developed by the DoD then unplug your computer and toss it into the trash bin. ^.^

"I'm not interested in paying taxes to develop another centralized-establishment controlled form of energy production.  That just gives government and related authoritarians more leverage over the human race."

So your willing to pay more for a more expensive less reliable energy infrastructure in order to appease your moral principles? Well that's your personal choice then, but you'll find that most people will disagree. Furthermore you have yet to address these points:

Prove that OGLU power generation is more efficient and costs less in terms of maintenance, materials costs and is more reliable than fusion power.
Prove that OGLU construction AND distribution costs are less than using native building techniques in rural environments supplemented using modern components.

If your next post does not address those issues I will consider it a final concession on your part of the entire argument. Do not avoid the argument like you've been doing.

"If the DOD wanted money from me to research ambient energy technology, fine.  I might toss them a chunk of change for  that.  But they won't develop ambient energy tech, as it doesn't benefit their objective: which is to power bigger and better DOD toys. "

Open up a history book sometime. Military applications have been the driving force for technological advancement ever since we learned how to make fire. That's how the world works. If you don't like it as soon as we build colonies on the moon you can move there.

"Also, that form of energy production isn't something they can control, and they can't package the energy to sell to populations.  Government an related authoritarians like to find ways to SELL us what we need for our survival, even though it is available almost everywhere for free: land, water, energy.  These are EVERYWHERE.  Think about it.  There is no scarcity of these essential resources. "

It has nothing to do with those resources being available. It has to do with putting those resources into production in as an efficient manner as possible. This is called specialization. Sure anyone can fix a leaky faucet if they learned how to. But I would rather call the plumber cause he'll fix it in half the time and for less money if I went off trying to figure it out myself. Same goes with your inefficient energy grid. It is easier to let someone else who knows what their doing handle electric production and distribution who specialize in that field than worrying about it on your own. This is basic human nature. Even you yourself are guilty of this, you may try to deny it but it's true. (Water is everywhere as well for fusion power generation)

"The way you tend to argue with me is becoming a bit tedious:"

It's tedious because I'm right and your just too proud to admit it. ^.^

"Why do you assume I haven't?"

Lack of knowledge of energy wave principles. Lack of understanding of how electrical systems and infrastructure work. Inability to prove how your concepts are superior to the alternatives given. If you refuse to answer direct points then it can be inferred that you lack the knowledge and understanding to answer properly. That is your own fault there. If you simply answered the questions and points brought to you instead of avoiding them it would go a long way to proving otherwise.

"I think I understand your problem Lizon.  You have too many notions of what is possible and impossible in your head."

Anything is possible but not always probable.

"I think you have taking too many physics and engineering classes."

If anything I haven't taken enough. Do you even know what the role of an engineer is vs the role of a scientist? They are completely different roles.

"For instance, why does the energy have to be transmitted in high bandwidth into orbit?  They can reflect low-bandwidth energy off the ionosphere to its intended target area."

I said that because YOU said this:

>OGLU communities or even individual OGLUs whose storage is saturated will transmit excess low-bandwidth radiation signals to satellites which in turn redirect OGLUs or OGLU communities experiencing energy deficits. <

I have only responded DIRECTLY to every thing that you said. Based on that argument by point is valid. In terms of reflecting it off the ionosphere good luck with that one. Provided you don't tear a hole in the atmosphere it may work. The only knowledge I have of using high energy bursts into the ionosphere is HAARP which is being used for various research purposes. Furthermore you have to make sure the energy isn't dangerous to the population when it comes back down. Your still going to loose a huge amount of energy in the process and I question it's reliability vs using a classic system powered by clean energy sources. Furthermore the arrays to transmit will STILL require large transmission collectors and receivers. This is simply how the technology works.

"Please refrain from insulting me.  Others tend to do that when I pwn them in an argument.  Then I just stop discussing anything with them.  If you insult me, I will do the same."

It is an observation of simple facts. You have avoided addressing issues that that brought up, and continue to veer off topic. The ideas your bring up are creative but not througt through properly. You have visions of a new human society without taking into account the one we're in. It's good to look at the goal at hand but if you keep looking at that goal and not the path ahead of you you'll just fall into a hole. Your looking at the goal, I'm looking at the path. No matter what you say, people will choose the path of least resistance as I outlined before. I want you to provide a CLEAR and PRACTICAL outline using the path of least resistance to achieve your goal. You must take into account competing technologies and keep in mind any advancements for your goal will also help the competition. It is your responsibility to change your own perception.

"Prove that OGLU power generation is more efficient and costs less in terms of maintenance, materials costs and is more reliable than fusion power.
Prove that OGLU construction AND distribution costs are less than using native building techniques in rural environments supplemented using modern components...If your next post does not address those issues I will consider it a final concession on your part of the entire argument....Lack of knowledge of energy wave principles. Lack of understanding of how electrical systems and infrastructure work. Inability to prove how your concepts are superior to the alternatives given."

Isn't that all a bit assumptive of you?

"If you refuse to answer direct points then it can be inferred that you lack the knowledge and understanding to answer properly."

Again.  If I don't answer a point, it's because it is either a good point and I am still thinking about it, or it is irrelevant or unsound and not worth my time to consider nevermind respond to it.  If you want to have intellectual discussions along the more established lines of debating etiquette, I suggest you find a different forum, perhaps the Acropolis 2000 BC would suit you better.

That is your own fault there. If you simply answered the questions and points brought to you instead of avoiding them it would go a long way to proving otherwise."

LOL

I already did prove it, and did so via the path of least resistance, too subtly that I guess you missed it, I suppose.  Remember I showed you a photo of low-bandwidth energy transference at work, and stated a proven, patented technology that converts electricity from the Earth's magnetic field?

Re: >OGLU communities or even individual OGLUs whose storage is saturated will transmit excess low-bandwidth radiation signals to satellites which in turn redirect OGLUs or OGLU communities experiencing energy deficits."

And out of our discussion, I came up with a better idea:  bouncing energy signals off the ionosphere. 

Thanks.  Truly, our discussion here did (kind of) inspire that idea.  Actually, not really.  Our discussion just reminded me of something I read somewhere.

Nothing we've discussed in these nearly 30 pages have inspired any new ideas for me, really.  I'm beginning to conclude that this is all a waste of time.  Tried to give you all the benefit of the doubt and stick with this thread a bit more and hope SOMETHING new would come out of it.  But, really, I'm tired of it all.  I keep adding my ideas to this thread, but don't get anything back I haven't considered before.

Except that notion of the path of least resistance as applied to the argument of whether or not it is feasible to establish OGLU communities in nations like the USA where the traditional energy grid is controlled and monopolized by authoritarian government and 'associates', and where true innovation is thwarted if such innovation undermines such authoritarian control over society. That was something worth considering.

"Open up a history book sometime. Military applications have been the driving force for technological advancement ever since we learned how to make fire."

You're actually claiming that every single technological advancement in history stemmed from a centralized authoritarian military regime?

That's not only wrong, but also insulting.

Technologies and innovations of current technologies have usually been created by regular people who, out of necessity, came up with something to make their lives a little better.   Militaries and authoritarian regimes have usually stolen those technologies and innovations they could adapted to better control their societies, and banned / repressed technological innovations that threatened their control over society.

First example:

The Printing Press.

Shall we go on......?